RiverRat

Florida Trip To The Withlachoochee River

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These Fossil Coral are very rear and they only form in one place. The Withlachoochee River,You find coral all over the state of Florida .But when the conditions are just right, and the heat and pressure and acidic proprieties were right millions of years ago these once living coral aged OLIGOCENE PERIOD : 38 million years ago I've been told bye DR. JARL Malwin . The fissile Coral will turn into a Geode, there true diamonds in the ruff. these picture I took tonight don't do them justice when i get them acid washed and prepped I'll take some more. If you decide to go to this place better be prepared, this is a hard river to navigate rapids at every turn you half to do allot of boat pulling over shoals dodging rocks the size of trucks, a true wild and untamed river.and lots of big lizards aka Gators on every curb. but nothing great is ever found on the easy path. so here's what I found today and a couple of cleaned up Pisces from before, hope you like the pics. Oh yeah and if it wasn't bad enough that the river beat me up today as i was driving home a log truck turned over right in front of me had to hit the ditch but no one was hurt. Thank God. Later Gators..My Motto..[The More You Look The More You Find.] ...good luck and good hunting ...

Tomarrow I gone take Mike..Sundancer73 to the sight and see if he can find him one . see you at the Amegos dive shop in the morning Mike. 8:30, make sure you eat your weeties, cause you gona need it .lol

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Edited by RiverRat

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Very cool finds, do you ever got some that have the original coral structure preserved?

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you mean like this?

Beautiful Coral Daddy! Just beautiful! :wub:

River rat - Great finds, thanks for sharing! :)

Regards,

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These Fossil Coral are very rear and they only form in one place. The Withlachoochee River,You find coral all over the state of Florida .But when the conditions are just right, and the heat and pressure and acidic proprieties were right millions of years ago these once living coral aged about 300.000,000 million years old I've been told bye DR.Gerald Malwin . The fissile Coral will turn into a Geode, there true diamonds in the ruff. these picture I took tonight don't do them justice when i get them acid washed and prepped I'll take some more. If you decide to go to this place better be prepared, this is a hard river to navigate rapids at every turn you half to do allot of boat pulling over shoals dodging rocks the size of trucks, a true wild and untamed river.and lots of big lizards aka Gators on every curb. but nothing great is ever found on the easy path. so here's what I found today and a couple of cleaned up Pisces from before, hope you like the pics. Oh yeah and if it wasn't bad enough that the river beat me up today as i was driving home a log truck turned over right in front of me had to hit the ditch but no one was hurt. Thank God. Later Gators..My Motto..[The More You Look The More You Find.] ...good luck and good hunting ...

Good grief! Gerald Malwin didn't tell you these coral pseudomorphs were 300,000,000 years old - unless he's pulling your leg. (His name is Jarl Malwin, DDS, not Gerald.)

The Withlacoochee River (northern one) corals are the same age - same everything - as the Tampa Bay corals. There are some color differences that distinguish the corals from the two locales.

Here is the correct information that applies to both locales:

AGATIZED CORALS FROM THE TAMPA FORMATION OF FLORIDA

The Early Miocene (25mybp) Tampa Formation underlies much of Florida. It is composed of soft, highly-fossiliferous limestones intermixed with sand and clay. There are several widely-separated exposures of the Tampa limestones which produce silicified corals and mollusks, the best known of which is Ballast Point on Tampa Bay. Nearby exposures of the same formation, such as at Sixmile Creek on Tampa Bay, may produce only calcareous specimens.

Many of the corals, mollusks, and other taxa of the Tampa Formation with shells or skeletons of calcium carbonate have been subjected to complete or partial silicification. This replacement has produced specimens of considerable beauty and sometimes of faithfully reproduced pseudomorphs. Most often the original calcareous structure has been partially or wholly dissolved, and the replacing silica obscures identification of the taxon.

The process of dissolution of the calcium carbonate and the precipitation of the cryptocrystalline quartz (chalcedony) in Ballast Point corals is described by Lund in his 1960 paper "Chalcedony and Quartz Crystals in Silicified Corals.' Lund says of the corals:

The silicified coral masses from Ballast Point are of varying sizes and shapes. Some are

globose and range up to a foot in diameter, some are tubular, and others are irregular in

shape. Many of the masses are hollow, and the preserved 'shell' is characteristically

comprised of two distinct layers. The outer layer consists of replaced coral in which the

features [may be] preserved in remarkable detail, and the inner part consists of either

banded chalcedony or banded chalcedony over which quartz crystals have grown. Most of the

hollow forms are lined with colloform chalcedony, a few are lined with small quartz crystals,

and less commonly specimens are partitioned and lined with both kinds of material, each in a

separate chamber.

The origin of the dissolved silica is plants and animals as diatoms, radiolarians, and silica-secreting sponges, as well as other siliceous matter occuring in the matrix.

For more information see:

Lund, Ernest H., Chalcedony and Quartz Crystals in Silicified Coral; American Minerologist (1960) volume 45, nos. 11-12, pp 1304-1307.

Weisbord, Norman E., New and Little-known Corals from the Tampa Formation of Florida: Bulletin No. 56, Florida Department of Natural Resources (1973).

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Edited by Harry Pristis

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can`t school the school teacher haha

this is a piece I got from honeymoon island

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Edited by coral daddy

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Fantastic color! thank you so much for sharing those with us. :)

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300,000,000 years is as old as my Mother in Law!!! :jig:

Its good to know this coral is Miocene. I know of places which Coral Daddy took me to where it is laying on the ground basically, no more than 3 feet down. I know the Natives really liked it. I like it too. After heating its absolutely outstanding to work. Never know what color your gonna get. What is really neat about coral is after heating you can work it to a nice shape and the colors are faboulous, grab the same overall material that ancient man worked, a projectile point and it is the same colors but its patinated and aged another 3000-5000-8000 YBP and patinated the newly exposed material revealing colors you can not produce. Some even get clear edges. Coral is a very special material.

I like the facts, Im still learning on here and appreciate the scientif explinations, all I know is basic common knowledge.

Nice Coral Newnan, blue, rusty red, white, polyps and the perfect typology!! :goodjob:

5points-2.jpg

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WOW Pretty stuff

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i gotta admit, i'm sort of a sucker for botryoidal agate. i could have fun finding some of that stuff...

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The Withlacoochee River (northern one) corals are the same age - same everything - as the Tampa Bay corals. There are some color differences that distinguish the corals from the two locales.

Harry, why dont I find pinhead coral up there like I do down here? thanks Jeff

Tell me the scientific name of pinhead coral is so that I can search for info.

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As a kid I lived on Indian Bluff Island in Palm Harbor FL.. waaayyyyy before there was a causeway out there (Honeymoon). Used to swim/walk or take the boat. That place was LOADED with coral and chert.. but I wasn't into that stuff then and left it laying.. I did pick up some awesome points though.. OMG what I'd give to have a 'do-over' and be a 12 year old again. LOL

<BTW> I used to take the very Boston Whaler in my avatar out there.. when my dad wasn't fishing or was TDY somewhere..

~Mike

Edited by Sundancer73

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As a kid I lived on Indian Bluff Island in Palm Harbor FL.. waaayyyyy before there was a causeway out there (Honeymoon). Used to swim/walk or take the boat. That place was LOADED with coral and chert.. but I wasn't into that stuff then and left it laying.. I did pick up some awesome points though.. OMG what I'd give to have a 'do-over' and be a 12 year old again. LOL

~Mike

yeah no snarge, that place has been picked for decades

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I was there from 1961 to late 1963.. things sure were different in Pinellas County then.. I guess that's why I live in Columbia County now.. it's more like the FL I remember as a kid.. <remember Salty Sal>??

~Mike

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Sweet! As a flintknapper, I picked up a LOT of spalls which may or may not be debitage.. in any case, I will fire them up. LOVE the color enhancements and the probable improvement in workability. One white piece I found and spalled, I actually worked with a rockhammer underwater and it was like butter. GONNA LOVE THIS STUFF!!!

~Mike

Edited by Sundancer73

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Sweet! As a flintknapper, I picked up a LOT of spalls which may or may not be debitage.. in any case, I will fire them up. LOVE the color enhancements and the probable improvement in workability. One white piece I found and spalled, I actually worked with a rockhammer underwater and it was like butter. GONNA LOVE THIS STUFF!!!

~Mike

you`ll find that with most of that coral you found, the color is patina, once you hit a lick it usually is white or the brown, which fires to a nice pinkish red

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300,000,000 years is as old as my Mother in Law!!! :jig:

Its good to know this coral is Miocene. I know of places which Coral Daddy took me to where it is laying on the ground basically, no more than 3 feet down. I know the Natives really liked it. I like it too. After heating its absolutely outstanding to work. Never know what color your gonna get. What is really neat about coral is after heating you can work it to a nice shape and the colors are faboulous, grab the same overall material that ancient man worked, a projectile point and it is the same colors but its patinated and aged another 3000-5000-8000 YBP and patinated the newly exposed material revealing colors you can not produce. Some even get clear edges. Coral is a very special material.

I like the facts, Im still learning on here and appreciate the scientif explinations, all I know is basic common knowledge.

Nice Coral Newnan, blue, rusty red, white, polyps and the perfect typology!! :goodjob:

5points-2.jpg

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Nice work bro!

~Mike

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Harry, good information and I thought the 300 million number sounded a bit high.

Coral Daddy -

Boy, that "Pinhead" coral looks like Stromatolite rather than coral but I don't know enough about the formation to say for sure. It's not uncommon to find variations in species population between far flung sites, but Harry is correct that most all the Agatized coral from Florida and Georgia is from the same age.

When I asked about coral structure I meant on the exterior of the geode, kind of like what I can see on your chunks of drusy. I love the Polyp structure that is preserved in cross sections of that material. Thanks for all the pics!

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Wow! those are really nice colors you have there. I would love to try and pressure flake some into some points. I started pressure flaking slabs about 1.5 years ago and still am learning a lot but those are some nice material you have.

I might need to make a diving trip down there, lol

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Hey Bohunter, what temp and soak time do you suggest for this coral? I don't want to ruin it.

~Mike

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Hey Bohunter, what temp and soak time do you suggest for this coral? I don't want to ruin it.

~Mike

Mike what coral are you going to knap? the druzy? wont happen, plus the walls are so thin you wouldnt need to cook it. If you got some of the bron solid, what are cooking it in? if using a turkey roaster with sand then put all spalls inthere for at least a day or 2 at 200 to dry it out, or you`ll have some explosions then ramp it 50 degrees an hour till you hit the 400 or 450 on your roaster .

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Mike what coral are you going to knap? the druzy? wont happen, plus the walls are so thin you wouldnt need to cook it. If you got some of the bron solid, what are cooking it in? if using a turkey roaster with sand then put all spalls inthere for at least a day or 2 at 200 to dry it out, or you`ll have some explosions then ramp it 50 degrees an hour till you hit the 400 or 450 on your roaster .

No.. solid spalls. My thinking is this stuff is pretty much like agates.. dry at 200F for at least 12 hrs..being it was underwater for eons, then slowly ramp to 500 - 600 and soak for 8 - 12 hrs..

~Mike

Edited by Sundancer73

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Have a Paragon kiln.. bought it years ago from an old buddy Mark Condron.. has a Sentry 2000 programmer. I'm sure of the drying cycle but not sure of max temp or soak time.

~Mike

Edited by Sundancer73

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I was there from 1961 to late 1963.. things sure were different in Pinellas County then.. I guess that's why I live in Columbia County now.. it's more like the FL I remember as a kid.. <remember Salty Sal>??

~Mike

[/quote

Salty sal Fleischman?? Haven't heard that in a long time. He had a weekly contest when I was a kid. You identified his location somewhere in Florida send in a postcard to win a rod and reel combo. Entered almost every week never won, oh well. Thanks for refreshing that memory!!

Hoffy

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