Old Or New Turtle?

[Foshunter]

This came from Tera's creek (barefoot girl) years ago and have always wondered if it was new old or old old and not being a turtlier, think that might be a word, don't have a clue even as what species. The creek has shallow water areas but nothing that would be an environment for even short term habitat for a turtle. Need some help, think it is interesting whether old or new. Some pieces have a blackish sandstone matrix on the back.--Tom

[Foshunter]

This came from Tera's creek (barefoot girl) years ago and have always wondered if it was new old or old old and not being a turtlier, think that might be a word, don't have a clue even as what species. The creek has shallow water areas but nothing that would be an environment for even short term habitat for a turtle. Need some help, think it is interesting whether old or new. Some pieces have a blackish sandstone matrix on the back.--Tom

Second picture

[JohnJ]

That's an awful big turtle fragment to be new...doesn't look like the large living species we have here.

[CreekCrawler]

Second picture

This piece is not recent.It appears to be be from a land turtle or tortoise.

The size of the scute is too large to belong to any of the extant box turtles.

Extinct box turtles were consideraby larger than the ones of today.

[Foshunter]

Second picture

In a hurry to get to the beach and neglected to show some dimensions, cross section is the bottom left piece--Tom

Edited September 30, 2010 by Foshunter

[Cris]

Very nice finds! What you have are fossils from the Giant Land Tortoise, Hesperotestudo crassiscutata. These went extinct in the Pleistocene, so the answer to your question is definitely "old". The bone in your second post is a nuchal "scute". I meant to take some pictures of the differences between turtle and tortoise nuchals earlier today, but forgot. Skulls and nuchals are normally the only two parts of a turtle/tortoise that is diagnostic enough to identify down to a species.

[MOROPUS]

Too big to be "new-old"!

[Foshunter]

Very nice finds! What you have are fossils from the Giant Land Tortoise, Hesperotestudo crassiscutata. These went extinct in the Pleistocene, so the answer to your question is definitely "old". The bone in your second post is a nuchal "scute". I meant to take some pictures of the differences between turtle and tortoise nuchals earlier today, but forgot. Skulls and nuchals are normally the only two parts of a turtle/tortoise that is diagnostic enough to identify down to a species.

Thanks for the ID always wondered about it, to bad nothing fits together but the creek gives and takes away.--Tom

[Wm.Spillman]

Tom,

I need a cast of a giant tortoise (Hesperotestudo) nuchal for our comparative collection. Would you be interested in allowing us to mold your specimen?

George Phillips

Museum of Natural Science

Jackson, Mississippi