My Maryland Miocene Mystery

[Guest bmorefossil]

i have been finding these since i started collecting and i havent seen anyone who has these things or no one seems to be able to i.d. them. They were found along the cliffs in maryland, miocene fossils.

[Auspex]

The 2nd & 4th photos look like what we (back in the day) called "fish ballast bones", not that I have any idea just where in a fish it would reside. I never found one in a bass nor bluegill I was cleaning.

[Guest bmorefossil]

have you ever heard of them becoming fossilized?

[Auspex]

I have 20 or 30 pounds of them; definitely fossilized. I should have been more curious about them; at the time I was way into teeth, & not only were these not teeth, they were very common (Calvert & St. Mary's Fm., VA). Now, I would like to know more about them.

[Guest bmorefossil]

I have 20 or 30 pounds of them; definitely fossilized. I should have been more curious about them; at the time I was way into teeth, & not only were these not teeth, they were very common (Calvert & St. Mary's Fm., VA). Now, I would like to know more about them.

could you post me some pictures so i can see what they look like

[obsessed1]

I have several of those also. I was told that they were nasal plates out of an Ocean Sunfish. But I have not had this verified by the museum yet. When I get get a day off work I will take one down with me while I pick up my fossils I left there for identification.

[Auspex]

could you post me some pictures so i can see what they look like

I'd be happy to, but they are in boxes somewhere, along with all the teeth, verts, crabs & other assorted accumulated finds from those sites 25+ years ago. I've moved them 4 times (along with the furniture) since then, always to a smaller abode. They're probably in the bottom-back of my storage locker. Heck, I can't remember half of what's stored there; I could have a pretty good fossil dig the next time I move! Lack of space is one of the reasons I started collecting fossil bird material; the items are small and rare.

[Guest bmorefossil]

I'd be happy to, but they are in boxes somewhere, along with all the teeth, verts, crabs & other assorted accumulated finds from those sites 25+ years ago. I've moved them 4 times (along with the furniture) since then, always to a smaller abode. They're probably in the bottom-back of my storage locker. Heck, I can't remember half of what's stored there; I could have a pretty good fossil dig the next time I move! Lack of space is one of the reasons I started collecting fossil bird material; the items are small and rare.

never mind then

[Boesse]

The wide one *could* be a very fragmentary premaxilla of a sunfish, albeit a gigantic one. The other pac-man shaped bits... I just don't know.

Bobby

[Guest bmorefossil]

never mind then

the flat one is just a broken part of the other things.

[MOROPUS]

Is my imagination, or the rounded bones look as rotula(knee) bone? Other guess,a fruit bone!

[Guest bmorefossil]

Is my imagination, or the rounded bones look as rotula(knee) bone? Other guess,a fruit bone!

no its not your imagination i thought the same thing, that they were turtle knee bones but i could never find any pictures that looked like these and the pattern on the inside is very interesting.

[Harry Pristis]

The 2nd & 4th photos look like what we (back in the day) called "fish ballast bones", not that I have any idea just where in a fish it would reside. I never found one in a bass nor bluegill I was cleaning.

I cannot open these images 'cause they're too large. The thumbnails are too dark to offer much detail. But, if Auspex thinks a couple of 'em might be "fish ballast bones," here, from Hulbert's (Ed.) THE FOSSIL VERTEBRATES OF FLORIDA, is what he is describing.

Fossil jacks (Carangidae, genus

Caranx

) have been found in many Miocene through Pleistocene sites in Florida. These records are often based on the inflated hyperostotic or "tilly" bones, which are found on the dorsal fin supports, neural arches of the vertebrae, and shoulder girdle of some species of jacks (figure). It is not known at what size these growths appear, whether or not they grow with the fish, and how widely among jacks they are distributed. Similar swollen bony elements are also found in certain species of the Ephippidae, Sciaenidae, Sparidae, and Trichiuridae (references). . . . Caution should be exercised in uncritically identifying all inflated fish fossils to the Carangidae (ref.). Indeed, the wide range of morphologies exhibited by tilly bones suggests multiple sources from several differnt types of fish.

[Guest bmorefossil]

sorry about the pictures but thanks for your help anyway

[non-remanié]

I cannot open these images 'cause they're too large. The thumbnails are too dark to offer much detail. But, if Auspex thinks a couple of 'em might be "fish ballast bones," here, from Hulbert's (Ed.) THE FOSSIL VERTEBRATES OF FLORIDA, is what he is describing.

Fossil jacks (Carangidae, genus

Caranx

) have been found in many Miocene through Pleistocene sites in Florida. These records are often based on the inflated hyperostotic or "tilly" bones, which are found on the dorsal fin supports, neural arches of the vertebrae, and shoulder girdle of some species of jacks (figure). It is not known at what size these growths appear, whether or not they grow with the fish, and how widely among jacks they are distributed. Similar swollen bony elements are also found in certain species of the Ephippidae, Sciaenidae, Sparidae, and Trichiuridae (references). . . . Caution should be exercised in uncritically identifying all inflated fish fossils to the Carangidae (ref.). Indeed, the wide range of morphologies exhibited by tilly bones suggests multiple sources from several differnt types of fish.

Harry you might want to try a different internet browser. If you are using windows, Mozilla Firefox and IE both rescale the pictures automatically to fit your display. The file sizes are not exceedingly large so even if you only have a dialup connection (doubtful) you should be able to open them. By the way, I just put your article in the mail yesterday so it should get to you in a few days.

-steve