beck man Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 i can not get anybody over here to commit themselves to id these mineralised jaws. and believe me theyve been around the doors.! i have been through hundreds of pics of modern and ancient horse and can not mach jaw shape. come on my friends when your born over there you land on an oss, if anyone can help you gadgies can tara for now beck man. beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_turkey Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Sorry but we cant tell you what the age is without the location. It would be best to ask someone at a near by museum or go on google and search for maps that mark Quaternary deposits. -Frozen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Correction... if the foissils canbe oidentified, oyu can tell the age. Show me a dinosaur bone... any dinosaur bone and I will tell you it is Mesozoic. Show me a Triceratops skulland I will tell you it is latest Cretaceous. Your finds look Pleistocene to me, but I am no expert at things so young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THobern Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Sorry but we cant tell you what the age is without the location. It would be best to ask someone at a near by museum or go on google and search for maps that mark Quaternary deposits. -Frozen We can probably assume that they are North Sea, in which can they are late Pleistocene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 beckman.... Nice finds...are these from the glacial till (which means they got moved during the last iceage) or from a specific deposit? Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THobern Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Correction... if the foissils canbe oidentified, oyu can tell the age. Show me a dinosaur bone... any dinosaur bone and I will tell you it is Mesozoic. Show me a Triceratops skulland I will tell you it is latest Cretaceous. Your finds look Pleistocene to me, but I am no expert at things so young. Unless what you said was circular, that's not necessarily true. Some specimens are very similar to unrelated specimens from different periods, especially when your dealing with partial remains of a species. The examples you gave have diagnostic features that make them unique to an age, so that you safely infer the species; however, some - indistinguishable - fossils are found in different ages, so the fossil can't point to any particular period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 beckman.... Nice finds...are these from the glacial till (which means they got moved during the last iceage) or from a specific deposit? a lot of my fossils are but idont think the bones are steve, iknow my picks arnt to good but the bone hasnt got amodern scratch on it it must have been burried imiedietly and is coming to the surface shortly before i find them. all i have ever done with these bones is wash and rub with a towell, but they look like theyve had a high wax polish? tara mate heath:) beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_turkey Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 , but they look like theyve had a high wax polish? Thats because they are mineralized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thats because they are mineralized or because they are from the North Sea and someone coated them to keep them from falling apart... Beck Man, did you say that you found these or bought them? Like someone said before, if this is from the North Sea, that would make it Late Pleistocene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 or because they are from the North Sea and someone coated them to keep them from falling apart... Beck Man, did you say that you found these or bought them? Like someone said before, if this is from the North Sea, that would make it Late Pleistocene. hello mate not north sea 200ft higher, and did not buy found as seen just a wash and rub honest!!! tara for now beck man:) beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 beck man... It is going to be very difficult to place your specimens as being Pleistocene or Holocene without additional data. Your finds are definitely of the genus Equus, which has been present in England since the Pleistocene. Have you, by any chance, discovered any non-horse fossils in association with the ones you have pictured? Even molluscs (clams, snails, etc.) can sometimes be diagnostic. The bones and teeth appear to be fairly well mineralized which would suggest that they're fairly old but geological conditions can sometimes make younger bones look older than they really are (which is why I asked about peat in a previous post regarding these specimens). -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 beck man... It is going to be very difficult to place your specimens as being Pleistocene or Holocene without additional data. Your finds are definitely of the genus Equus, which has been present in England since the Pleistocene. Have you, by any chance, discovered any non-horse fossils in association with the ones you have pictured? Even molluscs (clams, snails, etc.) can sometimes be diagnostic. The bones and teeth appear to be fairly well mineralized which would suggest that they're fairly old but geological conditions can sometimes make younger bones look older than they really are (which is why I asked about peat in a previous post regarding these specimens). -Joe hello joe as to the peat question i do remember saying no peat round here, but since then i have visited the area with an archaelogist and a geologist and come to the the unproven conclusion that we have found an ancient lake bed? going to post a map tonight with next finds. tara for now beck man;) beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Given the history of your area, there is the possibility that these animals were the livestock of Viking settlers. You might want to think about consulting an archaeologist who is familiar with Vikings about the associated artifacts. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Given the history of your area, there is the possibility that these animals were the livestock of Viking settlers. You might want to think about consulting an archaeologist who is familiar with Vikings about the associated artifacts. no bit marks mate and believe me i have asked local profs no idea mate. ps gona try send some good picks tonight take care mate heath. beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 no bit marks mate and believe me i have asked local profs no idea mate. ps gona try send some good picks tonight take care mate heath. I don't propose that they were eaten by Viking settlers. As to the age of these bones, the last glaciation ended about 20,000 years ago in that area, and it is very unlikely that these remains predate that. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 I don't propose that they were eaten by Viking settlers. As to the age of these bones, the last glaciation ended about 20,000 years ago in that area, and it is very unlikely that these remains predate that. hello mate i know the picks are not to good but as i keep saying there are no butcher marks, and the large horse jaw and and the antlers were found like the rest after a beck collapse (flood) with no damage marks you would normally find on midden bone, human animal or the elements. also the jaw bone and antler were in two parts but after a wash and rub joined perfectly, so in my mind they must have been intact when burried there are only two ways i can see this happening either by humans or some type of land slide.tara for now mate:) beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 ...they must have been intact when burried there are only two ways i can see this happening either by humans or some type of land slide.tara for now mate:) Yes, some mechanism of rapid burial is usually required for the preservation of organic remains, though "rapid" is a relative term, and does not necessarily mean a catastrophic incident. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 I don't propose that they were eaten by Viking settlers. As to the age of these bones, the last glaciation ended about 20,000 years ago in that area, and it is very unlikely that these remains predate that. ps bitt as in what damages horses front teeth and jaw! beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Yes, some mechanism of rapid burial is usually required for the preservation of organic remains, though "rapid" is a relative term, and does not necessarily mean a catastrophic incident. hello mate i spend a lot of time in the country side with me dogs n pole cats. what ime trying to say is i know what happens to bones left un burried and how long it takes thats why the one thing ime confident about is how fast my mineralized bones were burried. tara for now mate. beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 ps bitt as in what damages horses front teeth and jaw! Then again, medieval Vikings (and other rural users of horses at the time) may well have used bits made of rope, bone, horn, or hard wood. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Then again, medieval Vikings (and other rural users of horses at the time) may well have used bits made of rope, bone, horn, or hard wood. still gona do some damage mate none in that area on this jaw. beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haddy Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) still gona do some damage mate none in that area on this jaw. That may not be dispositive. Don't know about your location, but in the Western USA, hackamores were commonly used on horses. It looks similar to a bridle but has no bit, it works on external pressure. wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackamore Edited October 22, 2010 by Haddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 That may not be dispositive. Don't know about your location, but in the Western USA, hackamores were commonly used on horses. It looks similar to a bridle but has no bit, it works on external pressure. wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackamore could be right mate but the point ime trying to make is there is no damage on these finds and there should be.!!! tara for now beck man:blink: beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck man Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 Correction... if the foissils canbe oidentified, oyu can tell the age. Show me a dinosaur bone... any dinosaur bone and I will tell you it is Mesozoic. Show me a Triceratops skulland I will tell you it is latest Cretaceous. Your finds look Pleistocene to me, but I am no expert at things so young. you sound more of n expert than me mate any help would be welcome. tara for now beck man. beck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 you sound more of n expert than me mate any help would be welcome. tara for now beck man. Having read though all these posts, I stand corrected, they could also be Holocene. I have another question about your language, beck man. Somewhere in this discussion you mentioned "a beck slide"... whazzat? tara for now jpc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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