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Vertebral Disc?


danco

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I wonder if this is an intervertebral disc and in the affirmative of what kind (ichthy, shark, whale etc.).

Thanks for your help.

post-4401-044040800 1289494565_thumb.jpg

post-4401-014106000 1289494800_thumb.jpg

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How big is it? Did you find it generally near Dallas?

The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true.  -  JJ

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it would not be an intervertebral disc, in that those are not made of bone. it does, however, appear to be a vertebral centrum epiphysis, but from what i don't know.

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  • 3 months later...

I found out that it is a fossil vertebral epiphysis of a whale. Similar pics had been posted on Fossil Forum.

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danco, while I agree this does look like some type of vertebra, it does not look like any whale vertebra I have ever seen. Here are a couple of pictures of 3 whale vertebra that I took out of the Lee Creek Mine in Aurora.

post-4130-0-34841100-1299122516_thumb.jpg

post-4130-0-40758400-1299122567_thumb.jpg

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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danco, while I agree this does look like some type of vertebra, it does not look like any whale vertebra I have ever seen. Here are a couple of pictures of 3 whale vertebra that I took out of the Lee Creek Mine in Aurora.

It does appear to be a "cookie" as some call them. I don't think he is saying it is a vertebra. I have a nice cookie and it does look very similar except that mine is a perfect circle.

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you know, after reconsidering this fossil just now i retract my thought that it's a vertebral centrum epiphysis. i don't know what it's from. it is thicker and denser than other epiphyses i've seen from vertebrae, and the side where the epiphyseal line would be (the "joint") is not the same. don't know. back to square one for me on this specimen.

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Rick, when you say "cookie", I assume you are talking about the cap that separates from the vertebrae? Fromm the picture, I do not believe that is what it is, seems to thick to me. But I am not an expert. Also from the picture it does not appear to be broken, and it is not round, like a marine mammal vertebra. Then the actual size of it, puts it more in the porpoise/dolphin range to me. 5x4 cm.(1 3/4 x 1 5/8 inch) Never the less a nice find. I am very curious to know though exactly what this is.

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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Rick, when you say "cookie", I assume you are talking about the cap that separates from the vertebrae? Fromm the picture, I do not believe that is what it is, seems to thick to me. But I am not an expert. Also from the picture it does not appear to be broken, and it is not round, like a marine mammal vertebra. Then the actual size of it, puts it more in the porpoise/dolphin range to me. 5x4 cm.(1 3/4 x 1 5/8 inch) Never the less a nice find. I am very curious to know though exactly what this is.

Yes.

Here is the one I found. It is round and thin, but is similar. The one above is thicker and not round, but sure looks close.

P9050011.jpg

P9050012.jpg

Edited by RickNC
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I think it is a vertebral centrum epiphysis. I have some just like this. "Cookies" as they are more frequently remembered as separate or come off of the verts if the animal (porpoise, whale) was a juvenile. In adults, I believe the epiphysis gets fused to the vert. I wonder if the reason why this one looks the way it does is because it was from an animal that was older but not quite an adult yet. Just a thought.

Say, where's that Bobby fella who knows all about this stuff...

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Dear contributors (in solving this quiz). I know that in young animals, the epiphysis might detach itself from the rest of the vertebra, giving the so-called cookies. In case it's not from a whale maybe it is from a ichthyosaur (that have polygonal shape, i.e. angular sometimes combined with round contour). Here are some examples of ichthy vertebrae.

post-4401-0-77975200-1299181213_thumb.jpg

post-4401-0-63812600-1299181227_thumb.jpg

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I don't see mammal "cookie" in there at all. It looks too thick, and the roughness on the one side is only in the middle, doesn't go to the edges, like the one in a later reply. And I don't see ichthyosaur in there either. Unless it is a really worn ichthy. Ichthyosaur verts are concave on both sides and they don't have a cookie... that is a mammalian thing. danco... can we see a side-on photo, or at least tell us how thick it is. I'm with tracer... back to the drawing board.

Edited by jpc
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I don't see mammal "cookie" in there at all. It looks too thick, and the roughness on the one side is only in the middle, doesn't go to the edges, like the one in a later reply. And I don't see ichthyosaur in there either. Unless it is a really worn ichthy. Ichthyosaur verts are concave on both sides and they don't have a cookie... that is a mammalian thing. danco... can we see a side-on photo, or at least tell us how thick it is. I'm with tracer... back to the drawing board.

Here is the complete picture, side view included (from the thickest side that has a hole in it). The white dots mark the approximate surface of the rest. Hope it would help in IDing the thing.

post-4401-0-12876600-1299288887_thumb.jpg

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i'm still kinda leaning along the lines of cetacean but maybe spondylosis or something caused the edges of the ephiphysis of the centrum to ossify weird and break off or something? <sigh>

yes i'm out on a limb as per usual but i didn't see anyone nearby with a saw so it's ok. what's that sound?

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after looking at your new pictures, i am wondering if maybe it is some type of porpoise vert that is swollen, from a disease or arthritis or something. I have several fish vertebreas that are swollen due to this and 1 porpoise; although the swollen porpoise vert looks nothing like this one, I will have to find these ans will try to post some pictures.

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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after looking at your new pictures, i am wondering if maybe it is some type of porpoise vert that is swollen, from a disease or arthritis or something. I have several fish vertebreas that are swollen due to this and 1 porpoise; although the swollen porpoise vert looks nothing like this one, I will have to find these ans will try to post some pictures.

It would be great to have these pics for comparison.

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