danco Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 I wonder if this is an intervertebral disc and in the affirmative of what kind (ichthy, shark, whale etc.). Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 How big is it? Did you find it generally near Dallas? The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 How big is it? It kind of looks like a very worn dino vert. Here's one we found a couple of years ago: http://www.oceansofkansas.com/Niobrarasaurus/NewDino2/vp-17229.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickNC Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I have one and mine is almost a perfect circle. It also does not have the pattern on the one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 it would not be an intervertebral disc, in that those are not made of bone. it does, however, appear to be a vertebral centrum epiphysis, but from what i don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danco Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 How big is it? Did you find it generally near Dallas? It's 5x4 cm and probably is from Texas don't know exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danco Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 How big is it? It kind of looks like a very worn dino vert. Here's one we found a couple of years ago: http://www.oceansofkansas.com/Niobrarasaurus/NewDino2/vp-17229.jpg It's 5x4 cm and probably is from Texas don't know exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danco Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 I found out that it is a fossil vertebral epiphysis of a whale. Similar pics had been posted on Fossil Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 danco, while I agree this does look like some type of vertebra, it does not look like any whale vertebra I have ever seen. Here are a couple of pictures of 3 whale vertebra that I took out of the Lee Creek Mine in Aurora. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickNC Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 danco, while I agree this does look like some type of vertebra, it does not look like any whale vertebra I have ever seen. Here are a couple of pictures of 3 whale vertebra that I took out of the Lee Creek Mine in Aurora. It does appear to be a "cookie" as some call them. I don't think he is saying it is a vertebra. I have a nice cookie and it does look very similar except that mine is a perfect circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 you know, after reconsidering this fossil just now i retract my thought that it's a vertebral centrum epiphysis. i don't know what it's from. it is thicker and denser than other epiphyses i've seen from vertebrae, and the side where the epiphyseal line would be (the "joint") is not the same. don't know. back to square one for me on this specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Rick, when you say "cookie", I assume you are talking about the cap that separates from the vertebrae? Fromm the picture, I do not believe that is what it is, seems to thick to me. But I am not an expert. Also from the picture it does not appear to be broken, and it is not round, like a marine mammal vertebra. Then the actual size of it, puts it more in the porpoise/dolphin range to me. 5x4 cm.(1 3/4 x 1 5/8 inch) Never the less a nice find. I am very curious to know though exactly what this is. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickNC Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Rick, when you say "cookie", I assume you are talking about the cap that separates from the vertebrae? Fromm the picture, I do not believe that is what it is, seems to thick to me. But I am not an expert. Also from the picture it does not appear to be broken, and it is not round, like a marine mammal vertebra. Then the actual size of it, puts it more in the porpoise/dolphin range to me. 5x4 cm.(1 3/4 x 1 5/8 inch) Never the less a nice find. I am very curious to know though exactly what this is. Yes. Here is the one I found. It is round and thin, but is similar. The one above is thicker and not round, but sure looks close. Edited March 3, 2011 by RickNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I think it is a vertebral centrum epiphysis. I have some just like this. "Cookies" as they are more frequently remembered as separate or come off of the verts if the animal (porpoise, whale) was a juvenile. In adults, I believe the epiphysis gets fused to the vert. I wonder if the reason why this one looks the way it does is because it was from an animal that was older but not quite an adult yet. Just a thought. Say, where's that Bobby fella who knows all about this stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danco Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Dear contributors (in solving this quiz). I know that in young animals, the epiphysis might detach itself from the rest of the vertebra, giving the so-called cookies. In case it's not from a whale maybe it is from a ichthyosaur (that have polygonal shape, i.e. angular sometimes combined with round contour). Here are some examples of ichthy vertebrae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) I don't see mammal "cookie" in there at all. It looks too thick, and the roughness on the one side is only in the middle, doesn't go to the edges, like the one in a later reply. And I don't see ichthyosaur in there either. Unless it is a really worn ichthy. Ichthyosaur verts are concave on both sides and they don't have a cookie... that is a mammalian thing. danco... can we see a side-on photo, or at least tell us how thick it is. I'm with tracer... back to the drawing board. Edited March 4, 2011 by jpc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danco Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 I don't see mammal "cookie" in there at all. It looks too thick, and the roughness on the one side is only in the middle, doesn't go to the edges, like the one in a later reply. And I don't see ichthyosaur in there either. Unless it is a really worn ichthy. Ichthyosaur verts are concave on both sides and they don't have a cookie... that is a mammalian thing. danco... can we see a side-on photo, or at least tell us how thick it is. I'm with tracer... back to the drawing board. Here is the complete picture, side view included (from the thickest side that has a hole in it). The white dots mark the approximate surface of the rest. Hope it would help in IDing the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 i'm still kinda leaning along the lines of cetacean but maybe spondylosis or something caused the edges of the ephiphysis of the centrum to ossify weird and break off or something? <sigh> yes i'm out on a limb as per usual but i didn't see anyone nearby with a saw so it's ok. what's that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 after looking at your new pictures, i am wondering if maybe it is some type of porpoise vert that is swollen, from a disease or arthritis or something. I have several fish vertebreas that are swollen due to this and 1 porpoise; although the swollen porpoise vert looks nothing like this one, I will have to find these ans will try to post some pictures. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 hmmmm..... i'm still stumped, but i won't rule out pathological vert as others have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danco Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 after looking at your new pictures, i am wondering if maybe it is some type of porpoise vert that is swollen, from a disease or arthritis or something. I have several fish vertebreas that are swollen due to this and 1 porpoise; although the swollen porpoise vert looks nothing like this one, I will have to find these ans will try to post some pictures. It would be great to have these pics for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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