Wrangellian Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 (edited) Here are the Blastoids and Brachios from my previous post, rescanned from different angles in hopes of getting a more confident ID on them, and from that potential locations of origin. Maybe knowing one will lead to solving the other. Any help from anyone who knows these things would be appreciated! If it helps to track down the sources, these were being sold in the '80s in the Fossil Shop, Drumheller Alta. I doubt they would be from formations that didn't produce these by the number. So far I'm pretty sure the Spirifers are Mucrospirifer sp, most likely from Arkona Ont. The Leptaena sp. could be from L. Devonian Camden Fm of Decacore Co, TN (as suggested by the outfit I bought it from) The others were labelled as Delthyris (orange brachio), Dinorthis (flat one) and Platystrophia which was reidentified by forum members as Lepidocyclus (Ordovician). Any other ID (species, location, etc) that might have come with them when they were bought has been lost so I'm hoping to recover as much as possible, even if it's not certain, just the possibilities would be better than nothing! On some of them you might notice a dark stain that resulted from me stupidly using a sticky substance to stick them in a display case when I was a kid. Edited December 13, 2010 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Great pics, I hope you can get more info but getting down to species level requires some thorough study. I still think the Blastoids are Mississippian in age and not Upper Devonian though. -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 For sure the blastoids are not Devonian. As Shamalama said, they are probably Mississippian. Unfortunately, there are several locations in the Midwest(USA) that produced these in abundance. The bottom row looks like they may have come from Milstadt, Illinois sometimes referred to as Floraville, Illinois. Blastoids from this locality are generally pristine and that is why I would not say that for the upper row. They have damage to them and that would be unusual for that locality. The other possible localities are Sulfur, Indiana or Hopkinsville, KY. Another possible locality is Hecker, Illinois but I think that was a Pennsylvanian locality. It did produce lots of Pentremites so it is also a possiblity. All of your blastoids are Pentremites and the bottom row looks to be godoni. crinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 13, 2010 Author Share Posted December 13, 2010 Thanks both of you.. I may never pin them down but these are all potentially useful clues. I did say in my other post that I have seen Pentremites similar to the larger one from somewhere in Iowa, are any of you familiar what that area? They looked much the same in type and preservation, but I can't be sure and I dont remember exactly where in Iowa or where I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 13, 2010 Author Share Posted December 13, 2010 ... The bottom row looks like they may have come from Milstadt, Illinois sometimes referred to as Floraville, Illinois. Blastoids from this locality are generally pristine and that is why I would not say that for the upper row. They have damage to them and that would be unusual for that locality. ... crinus Do you mean vice versa? I'd say the top one is better preserved, though a little squashed, than the bottom row. I have a few specimens from Milstadt too but they have more of a lavender-colored silica preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Do you mean vice versa? I'd say the top one is better preserved, though a little squashed, than the bottom row. I have a few specimens from Milstadt too but they have more of a lavender-colored silica preservation. No, definitely the bottom row are better preserved. I would lean towards Milstadt for those specimens. Lavender color??? I have hundreds from Milstadt and would not say that they have a lavender color. Are you sure about those. You were looking for a site that produces Pentremites in large quantities. I know of no site in Iowa that would produce bulk quantities of blastoids. There is a site in Oklahoma that has a lot of Pentremites but those specimens are dark in color. Maybe those are your "lavender" specimens. A pic would help. crinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 No, definitely the bottom row are better preserved. I would lean towards Milstadt for those specimens. Lavender color??? I have hundreds from Milstadt and would not say that they have a lavender color. Are you sure about those. You were looking for a site that produces Pentremites in large quantities. I know of no site in Iowa that would produce bulk quantities of blastoids. There is a site in Oklahoma that has a lot of Pentremites but those specimens are dark in color. Maybe those are your "lavender" specimens. A pic would help. crinus OK so maybe the site in Iowa doesnt produce lots of them, but the specimen I saw (pic of) was the closest thing I've seen to mine. The others may be 3D (undistorted) but the bigger one seems to have finer detail. The ones I have from Millstadt Ridenhower Fm (labeled P. symmetricus - I just noticed the largest one is partly covered with a bryozoan - cool!) aren't bright lavender, they're grey -almost white with a faintly pinkish-purple tinge.. and they're solid and shiny whereas the ones above as you can see are an orange grainy material. Do the ones from Milstadt also come in orange too? Seems such a different preservation between the two sets but maybe that's a different Fm or layer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 OK so maybe the site in Iowa doesnt produce lots of them, but the specimen I saw (pic of) was the closest thing I've seen to mine. The others may be 3D (undistorted) but the bigger one seems to have finer detail. The ones I have from Millstadt Ridenhower Fm (labeled P. symmetricus - I just noticed the largest one is partly covered with a bryozoan - cool!) aren't bright lavender, they're grey -almost white with a faintly pinkish-purple tinge.. and they're solid and shiny whereas the ones above as you can see are an orange grainy material. Do the ones from Milstadt also come in orange too? Seems such a different preservation between the two sets but maybe that's a different Fm or layer? I have samples from Floraville, Sulphur and Oklahoma if you want some to compare with. PM me your address and I can send them to you. -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 OK. Here are some possibly insufficient photos of my Milstadt blastoids alongside the others for interest's sake. I can never get the color just right. Pic 2 shows the Bryozoan on the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 OK. Here are some possibly insufficient photos of my Milstadt blastoids alongside the others for interest's sake. I can never get the color just right. Pic 2 shows the Bryozoan on the one. I do not believe that you will ever be certain where your unknown blastoids came from. Even at one locality there is variation in the preservation and difference in color. Take Milstadt for example: specimens can be found in the shale layers as well as the limestone ledges or ever loose/eroded. All of these can vary by color and preservation. Same is true for Sulfur, Indiana and even more so because of the size of the exposure. Blastoids from the top look a lot like the stuff from Milstadt. Lower down on the limestone ledges they can have white spots Plate of Sulfur blastoids. Wax, Kentucky blastoid can look like the ones from Sulfur. Erkerty, Indiana blastoids (just down the road from Sulfur) can also look like Sulfur. You will never be 100% sure. It is best to purchase them with proper labeling. crinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 ... It is best to purchase them with proper labeling. crinus Yeah I know that now... but not when I was a kid, I was terribly irresponsible! I'll be content to at least get a short list of possible sites of origin. Or else maybe I'll just pass them off to kids and spring for a good multi plate like the one in your pic! (with a label) Which sites have orange blastoids? I have never seen pics of any like these, just lots the whitish/grey ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 I don't know for sure, but I think the blastoids look similar to things I've seen from the user named 'Placoderms' before. You may want to check with them. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 I don't know for sure, but I think the blastoids look similar to things I've seen from the user named 'Placoderms' before. You may want to check with them. Thanks, I hate to be a bother but I'm not sure how to find them.. do you have a link you can provide me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Thanks, I hate to be a bother but I'm not sure how to find them.. do you have a link you can provide me? Actually, what I meant is that their username on this forum is 'Placoderms'. You can just send them a PM within this forum and tell them I mentioned them to you. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB88 Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 The larger blastoids look to be Pentremites sulcatus from the upper Mississippian (I find them in the Pennington formation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 Actually, what I meant is that their username on this forum is 'Placoderms'. You can just send them a PM within this forum and tell them I mentioned them to you. Yes I knew you were talking about a member but just wondered if you remembered where you saw his blastoids posted and if so could you provide a link.. Othwerwise I'll have to pm him I guess.. thanks And thanks Jim for the tip.. I've already had someone point to the Pennington Fm so that's looking more likely now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted December 23, 2010 Share Posted December 23, 2010 Yes I knew you were talking about a member but just wondered if you remembered where you saw his blastoids posted and if so could you provide a link.. Othwerwise I'll have to pm him I guess.. thanks Aha....sorry....I saw them in person. No idea whether or not they have any up here anywhere. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocerisdave Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 The blastiods look very similar to ones found here in North Alabama, also Pentremites. The top one looks like Pentremites Pyriformis. The lower one looks like Pentremites godoni. They are found here in abundance. The first Brachiopod, (1st pic on left) looks like another one found here, Atrypa reticularis, possibly. The one on the right, in the first pic, looks like Plarystrophia sp. I dont recognize the ones in the third pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 28, 2010 Author Share Posted December 28, 2010 The blastiods look very similar to ones found here in North Alabama, also Pentremites. The top one looks like Pentremites Pyriformis. The lower one looks like Pentremites godoni. They are found here in abundance. The first Brachiopod, (1st pic on left) looks like another one found here, Atrypa reticularis, possibly. The one on the right, in the first pic, looks like Plarystrophia sp. I dont recognize the ones in the third pic. OK, not sure about the brach's, but by the sound of things you could be right about the blastoids.. the larger one could also be P. sulcatus according to JimB88. What is the name of the formation(s) where you find them there in N. AL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placoderms Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Actually, what I meant is that their username on this forum is 'Placoderms'. You can just send them a PM within this forum and tell them I mentioned them to you. Woke me up... Well Crinus knows better than me. I can show a few examples from Erkerty, Indiana (see attached). Mr. Edonihce, hope you are doing well. I have some Crinoids with your name on it. Might head to Denver in the spring with my NY friend for gold, if so I will pack you a nice plate of crinoids you might not have (will need to be prepped). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Mr. Edonihce, hope you are doing well. I have some Crinoids with your name on it. Might head to Denver in the spring with my NY friend for gold, if so I will pack you a nice plate of crinoids you might not have (will need to be prepped). Sweet! That's a nice looking plate of blastoids too. Whatever crazy crinoid goodies you have for me I'm sure will cause my eyes to pop out as usual Hopefully I'll have something worthy to pass your way as well, but of course, nothing quite as spectacular as what you seem to keep coming up with up North there. Let me know when you're heading through......and as always, if you need a place to stay, you have one here. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Woke me up... Well Crinus knows better than me. I can show a few examples from Erkerty, Indiana (see attached). Mr. Edonihce, hope you are doing well. I have some Crinoids with your name on it. Might head to Denver in the spring with my NY friend for gold, if so I will pack you a nice plate of crinoids you might not have (will need to be prepped). That's a very yellow plate, your hand looks right so the color must be balanced ok? The blastoid sure looks close to my larger one, for size and shape... I do feel like we're narrowing this down (thanks) - What species of Pentremites would that be? I don't think I got the name of the Formation there in Erkerty IN.. anybody? Edited January 11, 2011 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I don't think I got the name of the Formation there in Erkerty IN.. anybody? Hey Eric, I'm not very specialised in blastoids although I might have a good clue to get you pointed in the right direction. 'Erkerty' is misspelled so no search results. Page 3 of the following article has the reference that you're looking for: Pentremites robustus Lyon from the upper Chesterian lower Tar Springs Formation, 4.8 km north of Eckerty, Indiana LINK IMAGE LINK Hope this is your blastoid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hey Eric, I'm not very specialised in blastoids although I might have a good clue to get you pointed in the right direction. 'Erkerty' is misspelled so no search results. Page 3 of the following article has the reference that you're looking for: Pentremites robustus Lyon from the upper Chesterian lower Tar Springs Formation, 4.8 km north of Eckerty, Indiana LINK IMAGE LINK Hope this is your blastoid! Oh yes, I did see that paper but not the photo.. that sure looks similar. Somebody did tell me the formation but I forgot to write it down. Thanks again Scott! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critter Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Great, I love these little guys. A collection isn't complete without little gems like this. If fossils are so rare then why do I have so many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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