Auspex Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 This is a tiny (13/32" long) tip portion (what % I do not know) of a Hell Creek (Montana) tooth which has defied ID. It was reputed to be a bird tooth, but I'm not seeing any of the usual enantiorthine tooth morphology. All thoughts and suggestions are welcome and appreciated, including referrals to obscure papers and reference materials. Pictured are: sides "a" and "b", anterior and posterior edges, and the proximal end (broken off) to show the cross-sectional structure. It is in beautiful, shiny condition (no sign of abrasive wear), so the reason you cannot see any serrations is because there aren't any. Nor is there a pattern of longitudinal ridges. I'm just stuck, and I need your help! EDITED: I converted the bitmaps to jpegs; had to reduce the sizes a lot to keep from using 5 seperate posts. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emtilt Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Interesting tooth. Can't help you with an ID though. PS - For future reference, try using a more web-friendly format, like jpg, for posting your photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 For future reference, try using a more web-friendly format, like jpg, for posting your photos. Sorry about the format! I used a new digital microscope, and didn't see what I'd done 'til it was done. If I can figure it out, it won't happen again! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 So, I think what you have there is a Richardoestesia gilmorei.Wm.T. Thank you, Wm.T! With your leads, I was able to get my hands (eyes, actually) on some good, hard studies. I still have a ways to go, but I know the direction to look, Two things bother me still: this tooth is a lot more slender than anything I've found about R. gilmorei, and even at 200X, there is not even a hint of denticles. There isn't even a carinal ridge, just a nice, smooth, rounded surface. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 ...The "majority" I've seen are smooth, smooth, smooth. Then you come across a reference where denticals are found All the ones I've seen as well... have been very slender. I'll keep looking through my materials at home and here at work, but for the moment I'm sticking with R.gilmorei. We'll just have to keep digging I reckon.Wm.T. Thanks! Great to have help from someone who knows what they're doing. This makes me feel a lot better, but "dig we must". "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Cool tooth auspex.How exactly did you find this tooth? Lowes Farm Krew For Life! ~C*J*J*D*D*G*P~ My Shark Teeth Website.MANSFIELD EXCLUSIVES!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Cool tooth auspex.How exactly did you find this tooth? I found it the way I find a lot of my stuff: Ebay. I'd way rather be in the field, getting dirt under my fingernails and blowing the knees out of my jeans, but I work 80 hours a week at the shop. Specializing in bird fossils doesn't help get me into the field, either; suckers are rare! Buying is my only practical option. The good side is that I have developed some wonderful online relationships with some terrific field-collectors; several of them keep an eye out for stuff I'd be interested in. The network grows a little week-by-week (this Forum is no small part of it). Yeah, I'd rather be digging, but the bottom line is that I'm having a blast; if it wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Could it be a fish tooth ( cuda ) maybe ? It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 Did this one happen to come from a fellow you and I both know? The one whose contact info I sent to you, and you already knew of him?Wm.T. Sorry for the delayed reply; we had some heavy weather that put the regeon's lights out, and it was over 7 hours before I got power back. Early reports are that the storms really ripped-up southern MD; I hope the Calvert crew emerged unscathed! This tooth came from Chris & Katie at CK Preparations. Just to share some of the thinking that's been done on this specimen, I'll quote a reply I got from them in response to a pre-purchase inquiry: "Chas, It was very difficult to identify this specimen. We agree with you 100% that it is large for a bird tooth. I just visited with a friend on this matter tonight, looking at his bird tooth collection. What caused question in my mind is the lack of longitude lines on the tooth which are usually associated with Pterosaur teeth. My friend did have one this same size, but it had the classic raised lines on the tooth. The shape of the tooth and lack of serrations rule out the known dinosaurs from the area we collect. I am fairly certain it is a bird tooth, but it is a tough call. We try to do our very best in identification and this one is a tough call. We do offer a 100% backing on all of our fossils and if it is ever found to not be what we describe we are more than willing to refund the purchase. I think we are correct on this though. Thanks, Chris and Katie -ck-preparations" "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 Could it be a fish tooth ( cuda ) maybe ? Crossed my mind, but I don't know squat about late Cretaceous fish. Does the cross-section look K-fishy to you? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serack Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Crossed my mind, but I don't know squat about late Cretaceous fish. Does the cross-section look K-fishy to you? having laughed at a cousin for trying to take the hook out of a cuda's mouth and receiving a scar that he will carry the rest of his life, and having found several Florida fossil cuda teeth, I have never seen a smoothly hooked cuda tooth, and they typically seem to taper more dramatically at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 wall i just hard back form on it Paleontologist and it is it's a small theropod tooth, perhaps a dromaeosaurid or juvenile tyrannosaurid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 ...Just got done looking through one of the Brinkman books I mentioned earlier:"An Illustrated Guide to the Vertebrate Microfossils from the Dinosaur Park Formation". Pages 134/135. There are a group of unclassified, unnamed teeth rambling around out there that can't be placed in any group, apart from "small theropod", which is what a few of us have suggested. Basically they are "smooth, without serrations, and gently curved". One type is taller and rounder in cross section, the other laterally compressed. "They differ from those of birds in being taller, more recurved, and not being compressed at the base of the tooth".Wm.T. XLNT! This has the most in common with "tiny tooth" yet. I had a feeling that this one would be a case of amassing a long list of what it wasn't. (My first item on that list was "not bird"). I may have enough now to ask recourse with the seller (who guarantees their IDs), but before I send it back, I'm going to dig some more (I dislike "genus indeterminate"). Thanks a million! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayahuang Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 This is a tiny (13/32" long) tip portion (what % I do not know) of a Hell Creek (Montana) tooth which has defied ID.It was reputed to be a bird tooth, but I'm not seeing any of the usual enantiorthine tooth morphology. All thoughts and suggestions are welcome and appreciated, including referrals to obscure papers and reference materials. Pictured are: sides "a" and "b", anterior and posterior edges, and the proximal end (broken off) to show the cross-sectional structure. It is in beautiful, shiny condition (no sign of abrasive wear), so the reason you cannot see any serrations is because there aren't any. Nor is there a pattern of longitudinal ridges. I'm just stuck, and I need your help! EDITED: I converted the bitmaps to jpegs; had to reduce the sizes a lot to keep from using 5 seperate posts. lovely tooth.. do you know how old are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 lovely tooth.. do you know how old are they? It was collected from a well-known and long-studied deposit. Here is the accompanying collector's data: "Collection Area: Channel Deposit, sub-surface, Garfield County, Montana, Upper Hell Creek Formation, Late Cretaceous (65-68mya) Collection Date: 4/28/2008-4/29/2008 Sediment: Coarse Sand (grains the size of table salt), reddish in color, high energy water flow, most areas contain shell fragments with the fossil. Layer below is a mudstone containing plant fossils." It's color, texture, and state of preservation are consistent with other specimens from this formation. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 wall all Auspex is gaveling me it show we should have name of guy who it came form buy next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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