Paper Wasp Nest?

[stixx]

Hello Im new here

I have an old fossil I found many years ago

and would like to actually find out what it is.

I'm guessing it's some sort of paper wasp or hornets nest with the pupa still intacted

or maybe some sort of coral, was found along the lake Eire shoreline

in canada, sorry for the poor quality of the pictures

[sixgill pete]

Welcome stixx. I really dont know what your fossil is, but it sure does look like a wasp nest. It is really cool. I am sure someone can let you know what it is.

[squalicorax]

is it heavy or light?

it could be some slag

or a coral colony

if its light then its a modern paper wasp colony

[Carl]

I'm going to go with coral. I've seen many that were preserved just like this one.

[Rob Russell]

Look's like favosite to me.

[stixx]

is it heavy or light?

it could be some slag

or a coral colony

if its light then its a modern paper wasp colony

Thanks Squailcorax

It is as heavy as a normal rock of that size, it sure looks like fossilized rock and not slag

I'm no Geo, or Paleo so I don't know enough about this to really make judgments calls on this,

it's size is roughly 3" long by about 2 3/4" wide and about 8" in diameter at it's widest point, cylindrical, largest at the top, tapering to the bottom all the cells are pointing to the bottom narrowest point.

The top or "cap" looks like the same as you would see the a modern nest attachment to a tree branch or over hang of some sort.

It looks like some of the modern paper wasp/bees nests I've seen in the area,

but on the same note it could be coral as well, with the polyps intact, or some kind of tube worm colony?????

The reason I think they are egg casings instead is that they are rounded at the ends just like the egg casings in the modern paper nest of today, but maybe due to weathering as well??

[stixx]

Welcome stixx. I really dont know what your fossil is, but it sure does look like a wasp nest. It is really cool. I am sure someone can let you know what it is.

Thanks Pete

ya would like to find out

[stixx]

I'm going to go with coral. I've seen many that were preserved just like this one.

Ah ok

I've looked around the net a bit and the pictures of the coral I've look something like this

but the "eggs" in the cells don't look like anything I've run across yet,

but it's nice to know you've seen something like this and it's coral,

[stixx]

Look's like favosite to me.

Hi Rob

Ya I looked up these Favosite your talking about, and they do look something like them, but not quite as well

I wish I could get better shots of this for you so you could get a better look at it.

Edited March 1, 2011 by stixx

[BobWill]

I don't have much experience with coral so maybe there's some that look like this but it's hard to imagine the polyps wearing smooth while leaving the thin walls of the chambers intact. The tapering shape also sure makes it look like a wasp nest. It would be great if you could find someone with a camera to get sharper pictures. Does anyone know if nests have been found before, and what is the possible age of the strata in this area?

[FossilDAWG]

What you have is a tabulate coral colony. Such corals are common amongst the beach cobbles that weather from the local Devonian limestone along the Lake Erie shore. Within the colony, each individual coral animal forms a long tube, which is divided horizontally at intervals by partitions called tabulae. I'll attach a picture to illustrate this. In some corals the tabulae are essentially flat, in others they bend downwards in the middle, and in yet others they are more or less strongly arched upwards. The "pupal chambers" you see in your specimen are the tops of the upward arching tabulae. Whether the tabulae are flat, arched downwards, or arched upwards is a character that is consistent within genera and can be used to help identify the fossil. I will have to look things up when I get home, but your specimen makes me think of the genus Michelina, which is common in Devonian and Mississippian marine limestones.

Don

[stixx]

Thanks Don

Could very well be, the one thing I don't see in this fossil however is those divisions in the cell walls you show, but not to say they are not there and just eroded away.

or seen by the crude tools I have.

there is not enough chambers split along the length to get a good look at the insides

I guess I'd have to slice it up to find out..

Thinking on this a bit more.

I was wondering how a paper nest, be it wasp, hornet, or bee could stay intact long enough to fossilize.

I'm inclined to agree that its most likely coral or tube worms

However on another note the pupa themselves seems to have a outer casings and something inside, this can be seen clearly on a few cell that are split open.

What you have is a tabulate coral colony. Such corals are common amongst the beach cobbles that weather from the local Devonian limestone along the Lake Erie shore. Within the colony, each individual coral animal forms a long tube, which is divided horizontally at intervals by partitions called tabulae. I'll attach a picture to illustrate this. In some corals the tabulae are essentially flat, in others they bend downwards in the middle, and in yet others they are more or less strongly arched upwards. The "pupal chambers" you see in your specimen are the tops of the upward arching tabulae. Whether the tabulae are flat, arched downwards, or arched upwards is a character that is consistent within genera and can be used to help identify the fossil. I will have to look things up when I get home, but your specimen makes me think of the genus Michelina, which is common in Devonian and Mississippian marine limestones.

Don

[tracer]

wasp nests don't have chambers of various shapes and sizes like your specimen does.

[Carl]

The best hope for a paper wasp nest to become a fossil would be in amber. I don't see why one couldn't be preserved in rock, but chanced are it would be flattened and nearly impossible to identify.

Thanks Don

Could very well be, the one thing I don't see in this fossil however is those divisions in the cell walls you show, but not to say they are not there and just eroded away.

or seen by the crude tools I have.

there is not enough chambers split along the length to get a good look at the insides

I guess I'd have to slice it up to find out..

Thinking on this a bit more.

I was wondering how a paper nest, be it wasp, hornet, or bee could stay intact long enough to fossilize.

I'm inclined to agree that its most likely coral or tube worms

However on another note the pupa themselves seems to have a outer casings and something inside, this can be seen clearly on a few cell that are split open.

[stixx]

agreed that makes a lot more sense

The best hope for a paper wasp nest to become a fossil would be in amber. I don't see why one couldn't be preserved in rock, but chanced are it would be flattened and nearly impossible to identify.

[Wrangellian]

Definitely a coral, probably Acrocyathus or something related - the rock in the area you're in is typically Paleozoic marine, where such corals are common.. there were insects on land during the upper Paleozoic but I don't think there were wasps yet - never mind the likelihood of something so delicate being preserved vs. the likelihood of a coral!

Nice specimen anyway.. I have one similar but dont know where it originated - could be where yours came from!

[stixx]

The reason I came here was I know very little about fossils, not my field, and just a causal interest at best, the area I'm from has a lot of exposed fossilized sea bed along the lakes, so running across such stuff is not hard

Thanks for the input, I take it this is a sea species and not something land based as this seems to be the general consensus.

Sure looks like a wasp nest to the untrained eye! such as me

Thanks again!

Definitely a coral, probably Acrocyathus or something related - the rock in the area you're in is typically Paleozoic marine, where such corals are common.. there were insects on land during the upper Paleozoic but I don't think there were wasps yet - never mind the likelihood of something so delicate being preserved vs. the likelihood of a coral!

Nice specimen anyway.. I have one similar but dont know where it originated - could be where yours came from!