Double Trouble

[Sinopaleus]

these 2 definitely needs an I.D. i've had'em for over a year and still don't know what species they are. please help me rest this rising uncertainty! any help would be appreciated.

i believe they both came from madagascar, but im not sure.

[bear-dog]

Have no idea on the id.,but can offer some helpful advice.If you go to purchase something,ask questions.I get that here he comes again look at shows from some dealers for doing this,but as a whole most dealers are very helpful and nice[causing me to business with them again if needed.

To me it isen't all about the fossil.If you cant answer a few basic questions,it's just a rock to me.I ask what,the genus/species,location,formation age,etc.If they cant answer all the questions,I politely void the sale.Occasionally I run into an accidental wrong answer,but only rarely.Follow through with this and you will have less trouble with your purchases.

[Sinopaleus]

Have no idea on the id.,but can offer some helpful advice.If you go to purchase something,ask questions.I get that here he comes again look at shows from some dealers for doing this,but as a whole most dealers are very helpful and nice[causing me to business with them again if needed.

To me it isen't all about the fossil.If you cant answer a few basic questions,it's just a rock to me.I ask what,the genus/species,location,formation age,etc.If they cant answer all the questions,I politely void the sale.Occasionally I run into an accidental wrong answer,but only rarely.Follow through with this and you will have less trouble with your purchases.

i ask questions too its just that i forget too easily. and yeap, that's why im jotting them down right now.

and the dealers are both chinese. haha they either use 菊石 (nautiloid) or 鹦鹉螺 (ammonite). that's all them dealers ever say here

Edited April 7, 2011 by fossil maniac

[erose]

Fossil Maniac,

You have been posting some very nice fossils and asking for Identifications to the species level. Without knowing where a fossil was found it can be very difficult to do this. Sometimes you get lucky and another collector will recognize the type of fossils and know where they are from and what they are. But also remember that getting the identification to the genus level is sometimes as far as it can go without much more detailed information about where it was collected as well as detailed photos. Fossils from different time periods and locations can look very much the same but have completely different names.

I understand what you are saying about some dealers not having the information. If you intend to build a collection of well identified fossils you need to stop buying from those dealers and find the ones who do have the answers. As Bear Dog mentioned you need to ask the dealers for information and when they get to know you and feel that you will become a good customer they will become better about helping you. If you tell them you will only purchase fossils with accurate information then they will make sure they have it. Sometimes they just need to keep good notes just like we do.

I almost never purchase fossils but sometimes I see something that is just beautiful, like your polished ammonites, and spend the money to have it. I then make a decision that the fossil will be just a pretty thing for my home or it will be part of my collection. Pretty things do not have to have accurate information but fossils for my collection do.

There are plenty of people who just want pretty things and those dealers know that. That is why they do not make an effort to provide the information we want. But I am sure you can find dealers who will have the information and then you can build a more valuable collection.

And I want to say those are both very nice fossils.

From the other side of the Earth,

ERose

[Sinopaleus]

Fossil Maniac,

You have been posting some very nice fossils and asking for Identifications to the species level. Without knowing where a fossil was found it can be very difficult to do this. Sometimes you get lucky and another collector will recognize the type of fossils and know where they are from and what they are. But also remember that getting the identification to the genus level is sometimes as far as it can go without much more detailed information about where it was collected as well as detailed photos. Fossils from different time periods and locations can look very much the same but have completely different names.

I understand what you are saying about some dealers not having the information. If you intend to build a collection of well identified fossils you need to stop buying from those dealers and find the ones who do have the answers. As Bear Dog mentioned you need to ask the dealers for information and when they get to know you and feel that you will become a good customer they will become better about helping you. If you tell them you will only purchase fossils with accurate information then they will make sure they have it. Sometimes they just need to keep good notes just like we do.

I almost never purchase fossils but sometimes I see something that is just beautiful, like your polished ammonites, and spend the money to have it. I then make a decision that the fossil will be just a pretty thing for my home or it will be part of my collection. Pretty things do not have to have accurate information but fossils for my collection do.

There are plenty of people who just want pretty things and those dealers know that. That is why they do not make an effort to provide the information we want. But I am sure you can find dealers who will have the information and then you can build a more valuable collection.

And I want to say those are both very nice fossils.

From the other side of the Earth,

ERose

hey erose

woah that's a long post err. thanks a lot for the compliments!! i will do my best to get down to the species next time. but it's really hard here, since that there are no chinese names for species and genus for ammonites & nautiloids, there's only names for animals, dinosaurs etc etc , unless they are really popular. but anyways, someday i will get to the bottom for all my fossils. and thanks again

[ElGastropod]

Hello,

The dealer was right you have a 菊石 and a 鹦鹉螺.

The fact that they have been really polished a lot is going to make the identification even harder unfortunately.

For the ammonite:

From Madagascar, I think you get quite a lot of Albian and Aptian ammonites (especially these polished ones). As a starting point you could have a look at the ammonites displayed in this site (in french) and try to narrow down the possibilities.

http://www.ammonites.fr/cretainf.htm

Then you will have to find documents describing the ammonite "wall" pattern because every surface feature has been removed by the polishing.

Pierre

Note added in proof: for the Nautilus, have a look at Cymatoceras neocomiensis

Edited April 7, 2011 by ElGastropod

[Sinopaleus]

Hello,

The dealer was right you have a 菊石 and a 鹦鹉螺.

The fact that they have been really polished a lot is going to make the identification even harder unfortunately.

For the ammonite:

From Madagascar, I think you get quite a lot of Albian and Aptian ammonites (especially these polished ones). As a starting point you could have a look at the ammonites displayed in this site (in french) and try to narrow down the possibilities.

http://www.ammonites.fr/cretainf.htm

Then you will have to find documents describing the ammonite "wall" pattern because every surface feature has been removed by the polishing.

Pierre

Note added in proof: for the Nautilus, have a look at Cymatoceras neocomiensis

will do. im hoping that someone can I.D it for me right of the bat, but meanwhile i'm also researching by myself. thanks for the help

and thanks, seems like a cymatoceras i remember discovering cymatoceras on the web, but i forgot, and only remembered the starting "c". thanks for clearing the fog on this one!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cymatoceras-sp-Madagascan-Fossil-Nautilus-/330434836057

Edited April 8, 2011 by fossil maniac