midnitezan Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Hello all, I was looking through my dad's fossil collection and came across a few fossils that we can't identify. The first one is about 4+ inches in size. My guess for the second one is some sort of ray tooth? Last one is a group of teeth...I thought it looks similar to basilosaurus teeth, but there's great difference in size. The teeth I have is quite small, maybe less than 0.5 inches in length? If any of you guys know, please let me know~ Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The thing in the nodule (?) is bizarre! I'd love to know what it is The ray teeth are probably Aetobatus sp., from the upper plate. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Something about that first one says 'centipede' to me. Edited April 12, 2011 by Frank Menser Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 They aren't elongated enough for Aetobatus upper teeth. They appear to be Myliobatis (Myliobatis sp.). The ray teeth are probably Aetobatus sp., from the upper plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Without locality data, it's difficult to give a decent ID for any of these though the ray teeth are clear enough (Myliobatis sp - some species of bat ray or a close relative). The other teeth appear to be mammal premolars (small dog-like animal? maybe seal teeth). Where are they from? Hello all,I was looking through my dad's fossil collection and came across a few fossils that we can't identify. The first one is about 4+ inches in size. My guess for the second one is some sort of ray tooth? Last one is a group of teeth...I thought it looks similar to basilosaurus teeth, but there's great difference in size. The teeth I have is quite small, maybe less than 0.5 inches in length? If any of you guys know, please let me know~ Thanks!! Edited April 13, 2011 by siteseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Say, not sure what area you guys are looking at in the first few pics, but in the middle of that large "rock" specimen, it sure looks like the lower mouthplate to a stingray. Those curved "V" lines look just like some ray plates I have found. I can't remember if they are Aetobatus or some sort of duckbill or spotted eagle rayray...if that's what it is. Or are you guys looking at the outer ring of the specimen? Either way, the middle are sure looks like it has a ray plate in it. If so, I've never seen one in rock/matrix like that before. I circled the area I'm referring to in the pics below: Daryl. Edited April 12, 2011 by cowsharks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordovician_Odyssey Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The concretion reminds me of a cephalopod cross-section.. -Shamus The Ordovician enthusiast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cck Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Reminds me of this. Especially the "stem" if it is one. Some kind of cone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnitezan Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Thanks a lot everyone! These fossils are bought from a fossil dealer...and he probably bought fossils from many localities...and they were bought a long time ago, so it would be impossible to determine the localities now... Thanks for all the inputs though! If anyone have any more ideas I'd love to hear them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Then, you are saying you don't have the labels. If you have any of the labels, even if they are mixed together separately, it's possible that they could be matched to specimens. Without labels the specimens are rather worthless commercially and certainly scientifically, except for sentimental value which can be just as important to a collector. Thanks a lot everyone! These fossils are bought from a fossil dealer...and he probably bought fossils from many localities...and they were bought a long time ago, so it would be impossible to determine the localities now... Thanks for all the inputs though! If anyone have any more ideas I'd love to hear them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micropterus101 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) The concretion appears to be some type of shark or ratfish egg case. Below is a link to one found in Oregon. there are sevral different types. http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist/120/index.html . Edited April 13, 2011 by micropterus101 fossil crabs website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordovician_Odyssey Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 i agree with micro... the 2 lookk very much alike! -Shamus The Ordovician enthusiast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnitezan Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Then, you are saying you don't have the labels. If you have any of the labels, even if they are mixed together separately, it's possible that they could be matched to specimens. Without labels the specimens are rather worthless commercially and certainly scientifically, except for sentimental value which can be just as important to a collector. Ya, there are no labels at all The fossil dealer just sells them...and probably doesn't know that much about fossils But ya, we buy fossils just to collect them....it'd be nice to know what they are...and if not, they are still cool to look at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnitezan Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 The concretion appears to be some type of shark or ratfish egg case. Below is a link to one found in Oregon. there are sevral different types. http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist/120/index.html at first glance they do look quite similar~ but if you look at cowshark's attached photo, I tend to think the circled part is the actual fossil...and all the lines coming out of it are not part of the fossil And if you look at the circled part, there are some sort of pattern on it, while the photos provided by micro don't. Then again, it could be due to different species maybe it's something like this: http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/18383/Draughtboard%20eggcase%20ruler_VictorBelbin%20apvd%20(1)%20apvd_big.jpg . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 The nodule (first images) appears to me to be an ichnofossil, a burrow. It may be Diplocraterion or another Paleozoic ichnotaxon. The mammal teeth are interesting . . . they appear to be mammal premolars, but not whale. Single premolars can be a challenge because they have fewer diagnostic characters than molars. This thread is another reminder to affix labels to your own collection specimens!! http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I'm no fish guy, but I suspect the first specimen may be way more simple than where we're going so far. Check out photos of fresh fish fillets on google images. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JK5UKiJslEQ/TB3UFq-rrdI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/2xUgTbwFuZY/s1600/catfish.jpg http://static.photaki.com/fresh-fish-fillets_332928.jpg http://www.freshfishonline.com.au/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/150613/150613,1283517207,1/stock-photo-fresh-uncooked-red-fish-fillet-and-rosemary-over-white-60505372.jpg http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/150613/150613,1292676663,1/stock-photo-fresh-uncooked-red-fish-fillet-over-white-67544296.jpg http://www.freshfishonline.com.au/index.php?main_page=products_all&disp_order=1&page=5 . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I'm no fish guy, but I suspect the first specimen may be way more simple than where we're going so far. Check out photos of fresh fish fillets on google images. http://1.bp.blogspot...600/catfish.jpg http://static.photak...lets_332928.jpg http://www.freshfish...e=index&cPath=1 http://image.shutter...te-60505372.jpg http://image.shutter...te-67544296.jpg http://www.freshfish..._order=1&page=5 Now I'm hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The more I look at this nodule, the more convinced I am that it is an equilibrichnia trace fossil, and Diplocraterion is a reasonable guess. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Diplocraterion is an ichnogenus describing vertical U-shaped burrows having a spreite (weblike construction) between the two limbs of the U. The Spreiten (pl.) of fainter U-shaped traces appears above and below the final tunnel, made as the organism moved up and down through the sediment. You might call this fossil a domichnia (dwelling) burrow with equilibrichnia traces (the backfilling to compensate for rising and falling of the substrate surface) represented by spreiten. (I love it! A whole new vocabulary!) "Spreite" is German for "blade" as in "leaf blade." "Spreiten" is the plural (Anglicized to "spreites"). These are the layers of backfill in the bottom of the burrow -- the chevrons on the nodule. Is this absolutely Diplocraterion?. . . No. Is it a vertical burrow of an invertebrate? . . . Probably. Is it a better guess than a fish fillet?. . . Will we ever know for sure what it is? . . . Probably not. Too bad. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Is it a better guess than a fish fillet?. . . Good thing Mr. Edonice didn't show a picture of a NY Strip steak, else I'd be going to The Outback steakhouse tonight for dinner! Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Edonihce Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I certainly won't say burrow is implausible, but the angled markings I see here are more regular or definite or tightly structured (not finding good wording here) than I have ever seen in burrowing. Now, surface trackways maybe, but backfill deposits in burrows usually seem to be more rounded, whereas these are very definitely angled; almost to a point. Also, the margins of these structures don't seem as randomly placed as I'd expect to see in burrowing/backfilling. Something else (which may help the backfilling speculation).... they appear to be all overlapping; with the ones leftward seeming like they are slightly on top of the ones which are more rightward. I guess it still just looks like actual body parts of something to me. I wish we could see this thing in person....or at least in a video, or some 3D photos or something. . ____________________ scale in avatar is millimeters ____________________ Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser' ____________________ WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org) ____________________ "Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly." -- Mr. Edonihce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I agree with MrEdonihce, it's got to be the body part of something rather than an ichnofossil, but I cant help any further than that. I could be wrong, that's happened before. There's got to be someone out there that will recognize it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I certainly won't say burrow is implausible, but the angled markings I see here are more regular or definite or tightly structured (not finding good wording here) than I have ever seen in burrowing. Now, surface trackways maybe, but backfill deposits in burrows usually seem to be more rounded, whereas these are very definitely angled; almost to a point. Also, the margins of these structures don't seem as randomly placed as I'd expect to see in burrowing/backfilling. Something else (which may help the backfilling speculation).... they appear to be all overlapping; with the ones leftward seeming like they are slightly on top of the ones which are more rightward. I guess it still just looks like actual body parts of something to me. I wish we could see this thing in person....or at least in a video, or some 3D photos or something. 'Mr.Ed' has made the strongest argument (uniformity of the spreiten) that I could conjure in my vertebrate-collector imagination. Still, I imagined that I could see the ghost of a prior burrow behind the prominent final burrow. In the end, I thought the probability was stronger that this was a burrow rather than something beyond my imagining (equivalent to an alien life-form). I found lots of interesting things when reading about Diplocraterion, none more interesting than the span of time - Ordovician through Cretaceous - in which similar burrows are found! A staggeringly long time! This is just a best-guess exercise until someone actually recognizes the fossil. The best part of it is that I learned something. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) It is truly unfortunate that we don't have any clue to where the fossil in the nodule came from. I was startled by how similar it looks in a few characters to some of the earliest Cambrian hemichordates(?) like Haikouella or the earliest vertebrate Haikouichthys. B Haikouella and C Haikouichthys Images from http://cup.columbia.edu/media/2903/prothero-color-plates.pdf for reference purposes only Fascinating fossil!! -Joe Edited April 17, 2011 by Fruitbat Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnitezan Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 It is indeed a shame that the locality is unknown. I did ask my dad and confirmed that he doesn't know the locality as well... I wish I can provide more information All the explanations are quite interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now