Wrangellian Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) I bought these recently, and with all the talk about fake fossils, I wonder if anyone can tell if these are real or fake, and if they are real, what else can be told about them?First, this was sold to me as a Cornuproetus sp. from Alnif (Devonian). Not prepped very well, there are airscribe marks between the segments. There is also a glued crack running kind of diagonally across the piece, dont know how well you can see it in the pics.. hope I didnt pay too much. Edited July 31, 2015 by Cris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) Final pic of the trilobite.. (Piece measures 7cm max dimension.) Now the Jellyfish.. First pic is not accurate in color. The rest are pretty close (pinkish-red). Coarse-grained sandstone type of material, appears to have mica in it. Piece measures max. about 8.5 inches. Info that came with it: Jellyfish, Lower Ordovician, Mecissi, Sahara Desert, Morocco. Edited April 23, 2011 by Wrangellian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 More pics of the jellyfish.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hi Eric, I cannot say one way or the other on the jellyfish fossil although I would say there are no worries with regard to the trilobite. Additionally it appears to be a Diademaproetus sp. which is more unusual than the more commonly found Cornuproetus. The prow shaped process on the anterior margin of the cephalon is the identifying diagnostic feature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micropterus101 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 On the trilobyte look it over with an eye loupe or magnafying lens. look for air bubbles signifying a resin fake. Also put some water on the stone around the trilo and look for different colored rock directly around the trilo. That would also be fake. The crappier they look the more likely there real if you take a chance and buy one online. I spot fakes all the time at mom and pop fossil stands. most the time they didnt even know they were fake trilos but also i have picked up some good ones cheap cause some these little stores figured they were all fake and sold them dirt cheap. fossil crabs website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 Thanks both. Do you know the name of the formation in Alnif that these would come from? I don't see any air bubbles. I just thought of a way to possibly determine real rock - I notice when I breathe on it and smell it, it has that limy smell that I smell on all sedimentary rocks, I wonder if plaster or whatever else they use for fakes will produce that same smell? If not, there is another diagnostic tool (certainly resin won't smell the same). Good to know I have a semi-rare one, and that it's real - now I don't feel so bad about paying what I paid for a poorly-prepped specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Very difficult to say which formation Eric. The Proetus Horizon where Diademaproetus sp. occurs spans the Emsian to Eifelian. Correlating the statigraphic sequence for the two valid species; D.antatlasius & D.praecursor produces a handful of possibilities. Playing the "if" game you could say if the trilobite is the earlier Emsian stage bug it can only be from Dra Valley SW region, Khebchia Formation. The chance for it being Eifelian however is far greater with multiple zones and formations where it occurs. There is also one location code that I cannot figure out. The Devonian stratigraphy of Morocco is quite complicated and continues to be described and updated by the specialists. These are the three formations for the Eifelian Diademaproetus: Dra Valley SW - Aberouch Fm Maïder - Taboumakhlouf Fm Tafilalt - Bou Tchrafine Fm To be safe you could label it as: Diademaproetus sp. (?) Emsian (upper) - Eifelian (middle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric94 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 hi everybody . Many Trilobites from south Morroco have Alnif named for place come from , it' s not the truth , many place all aroud Alnif have some Laboratoty for to prepare all exported Trilobites . it's not easy for to no , where realy this Trilobite come from ... sure from south Marroco Bye Eric 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 Hmmmm.. I was afraid of that. I guess I'll just say "Alnif area, Emsian-Eifelian". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Neat looking fossils Eric... I like the jellyfish...You might want to show the jellyfish fossil pic to Graham Young curator of the museum in Manitoba as he is a fossil jellyfish expert... PL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric94 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 hi Wrangellian i have may be a name about your fossil , look at Eldonia Berberi Jellyfish , it's may be this specie ... bye Eric 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOROPUS Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Hi! First, I will say that the "jellyfish" looks like Eldonia sp.Real one, not fake! In the last show in Barcelona (last November), a dealer offer some of this fossils, and were quite cheap (20 euros each!).Some where really big! Well, the dealers don`t stop calling it "jellyfish", but scientist really don`t know to what genera include it (Algae, jellyfish, flatworms and even lichens are suggested) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 Hmmm.. I wonder how they can come up with a name like Eldonia (which I believe is a Burgess Shale genus originally), if they're not even sure whether it's an algae, jellyfish, worm, etc! Thanks all. It was not expensive, it was in that same price range, and as of yesterday there is another one on ebay from the same seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Here is the citation and abstract Eric: Eldonia berbera n. sp., a new species of the enigmatic genus Eldonia Walcott, 1911 from the Rawtheyan (Upper Ordovician) of Anti-Atlas (Erfoud, Tafilalt, Morocco) Author(s) Anna Alessandrello; Giacomo Bracchi Abstract: Eldonia berbera n. sp., a new species of the enigmatic genus Eldonia Walcott, 1911 is here described. Seventy-one specimens from Upper Ordovician (Rawtheyan) of Morocco (Erfoud, Tafilat) have been considered. These eldoniids are the youngest records of Ediacara-type preservation. The same preservation in Erfoud Ordovician sandstones has been observed also on enigmatic 'archnomorphs' arthropods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Ah, that's better. Thanks Scott, you know how to find them. Helps to have the right spelling - all I could find with 'berberi' was about 5 websites, with the location of 'El Kaid Erami' or 'Kaid Rami', neither of which could be found via Google Maps/Google Earth! The age given to me also appears to be inaccurate (Lower Ordo). Where does the Rawtheyan fit into the time scale? (regional?) -never heard of that one Is there no formation named in that paper, or do you only have the abstract? I should get at Fruitbat about this.. Edited April 25, 2011 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) In a way I'm bumping this topic, in hope for more info on these Eldonias, as I have acquired another one (below) but I am having the same problems I had 3 years ago in the previous post in finding concise info about it. The new one is of a different color, and I see others like it out there - Red ones like my first one above, and darker, not so red ones like this one. I wonder if they are from different location or at least a different layer. The info for this one also was 'El Kaid Errami' (Caid Rami), and I still can't find out where exactly in Morocco that is! Is it near Erfoud or Tafilalt? Would the formation be the Ktaoua? If I could get ahold of that paper Scott quoted I might be able to figure it all out, but as usual it's one of those things you have to pay for. If I can get all this info together I will post it here if it isn't already. Just one more! I'm soft and pourous, sometimes used to clean. The pull of the moon helps bring me my food. What am I? Edited July 31, 2015 by Cris Scavenger hunt contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Did you get that jellyfish off Ebay? I was eyeing one of those. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Did you get that jellyfish off Ebay? I was eyeing one of those. Of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Of course You have good taste. These specimens are lovely. Haha this is the second case that happened to me where I didn't get an item on Ebay I wanted, only to see that a fellow FF member got it instead! Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) You have good taste. These specimens are lovely. Haha this is the second case that happened to me where I didn't get an item on Ebay I wanted, only to see that a fellow FF member got it instead! That has happened to me a few times too... certain other members have deeper pockets than I have! Anyway I suppose if I can't have it then the next best thing is that someone I know on TFF gets it. Edited March 22, 2014 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 ...If I could get ahold of that paper Scott quoted I might be able to figure it all out, but as usual it's one of those things you have to pay for. If I can get all this info together I will post it here if it isn't already. It took a few weeks, but I finally tracked down that paper Check your PM for a nice surprise... in color! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Thanks Scott, Here is the pertinent passage from the paper: "All samples come from the Erfoud area, in the sub-desertic region of Tafilalt (south-eastern Morocco), but only 75% of them are known with certainty to have come from the type locality of Moroccan Eldonia fossils ... On the basis of chitinozoans and acritarchs, Samuelsson et al. (2001) assigned the Erfoud sandstones to Lower Rawtheyan and to the highest part of the Upper Ktaoua Formation. The chronostratigraphic range of this formation reaches Upper Pusgillian at the base, Middle Rawtheyan at the top (Elouad Debbaj, 1984; Destombes et al., 1985)." Now I need to figure out where the Rawtheyan fit into the scale we all know.. Is that a British unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Ah, here it is: It seems to correlate with the uppermost Katian.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 On 07/03/2014 at 9:46 AM, Wrangellian said: In a way I'm bumping this topic, in hope for more info on these Eldonias, as I have acquired another one (below) but I am having the same problems I had 3 years ago in the previous post in finding concise info about it. The new one is of a different color, and I see others like it out there - Red ones like my first one above, and darker, not so red ones like this one. I wonder if they are from different location or at least a different layer. The info for this one also was 'El Kaid Errami' (Caid Rami), and I still can't find out where exactly in Morocco that is! Is it near Erfoud or Tafilalt? Would the formation be the Ktaoua? If I could get ahold of that paper Scott quoted I might be able to figure it all out, but as usual it's one of those things you have to pay for. If I can get all this info together I will post it here if it isn't already. Just one more! I'm soft and pourous, sometimes used to clean. The pull of the moon helps bring me my food. What am I? Hi @Wrangellian I don't know how I spotted this post but I hope it is not to old to quote on. my wife got me one of these jellyfish / but she said it was a sponge , about four years ago . My records say it is Ordovician and from Kataoua formation in Morocco, I don't know if I have the same fossil as you or if it is a sponge or a jellyfish but they look very similar. I do really like it , cool thing. cheers Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Better late than never! Here is the paper I cited over 6 years ago. Enjoy! Alessandrello, A., & Bracchi, G. (2003) Eldonia berbera n. sp., a new species of the enigmatic genus Eldonia Walcott, 1911 from the Rawtheyan (Upper Ordovician) of Anti-Atlas (Erfoud, Tafilalt, Morocco). Atti della Società italiana di scienze naturali e del museo civico di storia naturale di Milano 144(2)337-358.pdf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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