paleoflor Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 To keep the flow of photographs going, here a picture of my biggest calamitalean cast, in girth... The piece comes from the Westphalian of the Flénu Fm. of southern Belgium. Specimen diameter about 20 cm. Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I did a series of school science fair projects on phototropism and other ways the chemistry of plants changed with amount of light. I might have to dust off some of that and think about how it applies to paleobotany. I've recently thought about lepidodendrons and their dramatic change in leaf sizes as it grew. I've wondered if that is simply determinate growth based on genetics or if the change in growth is caused by the amount of light the tree receives. As far as testing the idea of Calamites branching, I imagine looking at the plant chemistry of living Equisetum would be the best way to go.... You could see if higher levels of Auxin (a chemical that moves to the shady parts of plants) encourage or deter branching. Bringing this to the test would be a daunting task; our base samples may be separated temporally by many thousands of years, and we would need to be thinking in terms of months... Unless someone finds a hard temporal baseline (an iridium layer or some such), comparative speculation is what we have to work with. There are too many pages in the fossil record which are stuck together! Did a little literature searching today, but haven't been able to find anything very useful on this. Daunting to say the least. Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Did a little literature searching today, but haven't been able to find anything very useful on this. Daunting to say the least. Hey Tim, is there any group of folks that you know who are studying Calamites now by any chance?? Could always throw the question past Dr's. DiMichele or Cleary and see if they have an answer or know of someone who might have some thoughts?? Very nice samples by the way!! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) @ Chris: Honestly, I think there is no way in which you would be able to distinguish seasonal growth in the casts. Perhaps in permineralised remains, though, where more growth features are preserved. If so, Ronny Rössler from the Chemnitz museum might be able to tell you more. The next photograph, for continuity with the above, shows an exquisite specimen from the Chemnitz museum. Technically, I am not showing "my Calamites", but the photo is made by me, and the specimen too beautiful not to show. Arthropitys sp. from the Permian of Araguaia petrified forest, Brazil. Diameter about 10 cm (from memory) Edited February 28, 2015 by paleoflor 2 Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Calamites cistii from the Flénu Fm. (Westphalian) of southern Belgium. Length approximately 18 cm. No others with additional photo's of some nice calamitaleans? Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) @ Chris: Honestly, I think there is no way in which you would be able to distinguish seasonal growth in the casts. Perhaps in permineralised remains, though, where more growth features are preserved. If so, Ronny Rössler from the Chemnitz museum might be able to tell you more. The next photograph, for continuity with the above, shows an exquisite specimen from the Chemnitz museum. Technically, I am not showing "my Calamites", but the photo is made by me, and the specimen too beautiful not to show. Arthropitys sp. from the Permian of Araguaia petrified forest, Brazil. P1000386.JPG Diameter about 10 cm (from memory) Thanks Tim for the response. Wow, look at the internal structure there! Ok here's another example....I know I've photographed the cones before but here's a shot of a small Calamites fragment (nothing special but you can just faintly see some of the scars) on the other side of specimen. Upper Silesia, Poland (Westphalian) Regards, Chris Edited March 2, 2015 by Plantguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Nice example, Chris. Staying in Poland, herewith a specimen of Calamites cisti from the Upper Silesian Basin. Second photograph shows double-lined furrows and sub-acute rib ends, characteristic for the species. Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Ric Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Wow guys! Not on the forum that much anymore and haven't found any Calamites lately. If I do find the time to fossil collect, it has been mostly ichno and marine type fossils. Hopefully in the near future I can get out and look for more Carboniferous Flora. Tim, really nice pic of what appears to be a Calamite cut-away. First one I've seen ever. Thanks guys for posting all your finds and keeping this thread going, love seeing all your specimens!!! WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS! If history repeats itself, I'm SO getting a dinosaur. ~unknown www.rockinric81.wixsite.com/fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Nice to see you here again, Ric! Herewith another example from the Chemnitz museum: Arthropitys isoramis, from the lower Permian of Brazil. I love this specimen. Note how the outside (equivalent to a "stem cast") shows branch scars and no contracted nodes, while the inside (equivalent to a "pith cast") shows no branch scars and constricted nodes, which is perhaps an interesting observation in the light of previous discussions on discriminating between the two, as well as on the branching habit. P.S. in case it is not obvious yet: the Museum für Naturkunde Chemnitz is really worth a visit. Edited March 3, 2015 by paleoflor Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Nice to see you here again, Ric! Herewith another example from the Chemnitz museum: Arthropitys isoramis, from the lower Permian of Brazil. I love this specimen. Note how the outside (equivalent to a "stem cast") shows branch scars and no contracted nodes, while the inside (equivalent to a "pith cast") shows no branch scars and constricted nodes, which is perhaps an interesting observation in the light of previous discussions on discriminating between the two, as well as on the branching habit. P1000431.JPG P.S. in case it is not obvious yet: the Museum für Naturkunde Chemnitz is really worth a visit. Hey Ric, good to hear from you again! Tim, Another oh wow... Going thru some other samples I have looking for Calamites and this one pales in comparison...ribbing and nodes are barely visible. Its another sample from the Pottsville Group, west of Bessemer, Alabama. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Ric Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Chris, Tim and rest of the guys. I've had this calamite fossil for several years and posted it once. Please give me your thoughts on it. It sorta reminds me of the sectional Calamite you posted Tim? Found this Calamite like this with some ribbing at the top. The section at the top fell off and exposed some more ribbing underneath. Section that fell away from the top of the main fossil, behind it is ribbing. WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS! If history repeats itself, I'm SO getting a dinosaur. ~unknown www.rockinric81.wixsite.com/fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Ric Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Hey Guys, here is a 3D Calamite cast I've had that I found interesting. As small as this one is the ribbing is quite larger than the ones I have in my collection? WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS! If history repeats itself, I'm SO getting a dinosaur. ~unknown www.rockinric81.wixsite.com/fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The first specimen strikes me as a flattened stem cast. Not sure how you intend to relate this to the three-dimensional, permineralised specimens. The second specimen shows variation in rib width (blue arrows below). Is this real or apparent? If real, this property of the ribs, which also end in prolonged acute points (yellow lines below), suggests Calamites gigas. Quite appropriate, since this species indeed also possessed large ribs, up to more than a cm wide. You didn't provide a scale, but wrote the ribs were large. So all adds up nicely. Beautiful example! Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Nice example, Chris. It does show a nice node. Ever tried looking at the ends of the ribs? They can tell you something about the species. Herewith another example of Calamites from the Asturian (latest Westphalian) of the Piesberg quarry, Germany. Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Ric Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 The first specimen strikes me as a flattened stem cast. Not sure how you intend to relate this to the three-dimensional, permineralised specimens. The second specimen shows variation in rib width (blue arrows below). Is this real or apparent? If real, this property of the ribs, which also end in prolonged acute points (yellow lines below), suggests Calamites gigas. Quite appropriate, since this species indeed also possessed large ribs, up to more than a cm wide. You didn't provide a scale, but wrote the ribs were large. So all adds up nicely. Beautiful example! gigas.jpg Thanks Tim for the comments as well as the info on the Calamite Gigas. Scale wise, the cast is approximately 5" tall and 3" in width. The ribs are about an 1/8" to 1/4" in width. WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS! If history repeats itself, I'm SO getting a dinosaur. ~unknown www.rockinric81.wixsite.com/fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Ric Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Hey Guys! Just wanted to post this pic of another one of my favorite Calamite casts attached to matrix. It's from the Pottsville formation and is approximately 2' long. The tip wraps around the matrix. WELCOME TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS! If history repeats itself, I'm SO getting a dinosaur. ~unknown www.rockinric81.wixsite.com/fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 A new 'species' for the listing here: Calamites paleaceus Stur 1887. It can be distinguished from C. carinatus Sternberg 1823 by the appearance of its branch scars, which have a much smaller central opening. The specimen shown comes from the Westphalian AB (Pennsylvanian) of Brunssum, the Netherlands. Scale bar = 1 cm. 1 Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikin Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 After further reading, I think these are Calamites. Am I in error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hey Guys! Just wanted to post this pic of another one of my favorite Calamite casts attached to matrix. It's from the Pottsville formation and is approximately 2' long. The tip wraps around the matrix. Hey Ric, missed several of your posts....nice stuff....Hadnt seen a C.gigas before that Tim ID'd for you. Unusual beast. congrats. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hey Daikin, welcome to the forum. They do appear to have the leaf whorl arrangements around a central stem--like Annularia and Asterophyllites. I've also seen examples of minerals leaving similar traces--chrysanthemum stone in particular. Very interesting preservation in your samples...many of them 3d and lacking any appearance of the stems and/or veins...Where are the samples from? Do you know anything about the geology of the area. Are there other plant examples from these areas? Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hi Daikin, I tend toward Chris' alternative hypothesis, that your specimens are most likely mineralogical, rather than palaeobotanical in nature. If you look at centre of your "whorls", they show little/no sign of a central stem structure. Also, none of the "leaves" show venation (this may be due to preservation though.) Interesting structures, Tim Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 One from Hazard, Kentucky. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 After further reading, I think these are Calamites. Am I in error? They all are ichnofossils in my opinion. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM BUCKLEY Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) They all are ichnofossils in my opinion. I agree. Most likely a Gyrophyllitid. Tom Edited January 9, 2016 by TOM BUCKLEY 1 AVOCATIONAL PALEONTOLOGIST STROKE SURVIVOR CANCER SURVIVOR CURMUDGEON "THERE IS A VERY FINE LINE BETWEEN AVOCATIONAL PALEONTOLOGY AND MENTAL ILLNESS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsfly Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Away from my collection right now, so can't contribute, but very nice !!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm quitting my day job. Ric, you have the makins for a very nice wall display (as arranged). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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