Sharktoothguy11222 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 OK, so I got a package early this morning from eBay. I got a lot of fossils I need an id for, hence I am good at shark teeth, and nothing else. Sorry for the poor lighting, but it is really raining badly outside. The first tooth, however, is a shark tooth. It is Isurus sp. from lee creel. I can't figure out what species. It is lower tooth, originally I thought hastalis, but then oxyrhinchus, and then paucas, so :shark: :huh?: [attachm ent=7923:Bronx_zoo1_019.jpg] BTW, I was looking on various websites that sell shark teeth. And they have seperate species for oxyrhinchus and desori. So, are these two species really different species or what, cause they look similar to me. So, is this oxyrhincus/paucas/desori, and what's the difference between the species? Then here are some various fossils: Whale bone with bite marks(I'm not COMPLETELY stupid ) ???? some verts? and some more whale stuff these verts all less than 1/2 an inch. ray teeth/verts? fish heads? got me, coprolite??? 1st one is 1 inch, the 2nd is 3/4 inch Again, sorry for bad quality pics, but the weather sucks, and I'm going to my grandmas for the next three days, so no computer for me there. I just wanted to this before I leave, which is right now, so sorry. Tha tighin fodham, fodham, fodham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 ok lets do this: 1 i was thinking retroflexus but i dont see the ridge so its just a lower hastalis 2 is what in maryland you would call desori but i think the correct answer would be oxyrhincus 3 bone with bite marks 4 croc or stergon scute i need a picture of the back to be sure 5 3 fish verts and one dolphin vert 6 the vert on the top right is a Merluccius Sp. swollen vert, top left shark vert, middle left shark vert, middle right fish vert, bottom left fish vert, and bottom right shark vert. 7 the long fossil is a whale tooth, the other are puffer fish fossils 8 top 2 fish bottom 2 shark 9 two shark verts and 2 ray crushing plate pieces 10 2 fish skulls 11 shark poop 12 2 fish verts 13 the hastalis again shewwwwww that was fun!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I agree that the first tooth is likely a lower lateral I.hastalis, but may be desori. I retroflexus teeth have a ridge on the labial face of the root. I can't seem to get it to show up good in a picture, but the one on Elasmo should give you an idea. Some sources suggest that fossil I.desori and extant I.oxyrinchus are the same (Shortfin Mako's). The same is true for Longfin Mako's, fossil I.retroflexus and extant I.paucus. I suspect that the reason for differentiating the similar species is simply age. There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjen Lans Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi Northern sharks, The first 2 pics are a lower lateral C. hastalis indeed. If you want to learn more abour the differences between I. oxyrinchus and I retroflexus, then go to Elasmo, slide shows, Isirus dentition and click on "comaprison". However don't forget that on this page recent jaws are compared. They differe somewhat from the fossil teeth. For instance if you look at the upper lateral teeth from I. oxyrinchus. You will note that they curve back. On many, if not most, of the fossilized upper lateral oxyrinchus teeth, they don't curve back. Many of these lateral are very hard to distinguish between retro/ oxy. From my last three belgium trips I have about 500 complete oxy and retro teeth. I started to separate the 100% retro teeth and oxy teeth (some of the jaw positions are very easy to ID). After doing so, I still have about 300 teeth that can be either retro or oxy and even in some times hastalis. Even if you put 25 teeth of the same jaw position aside, you still have doubts. I keep them in the box called Isirus sp. Rgds, Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I agree that the first tooth is likely a lower lateral I.hastalis, but may be desori. I retroflexus teeth have a ridge on the labial face of the root. I can't seem to get it to show up good in a picture, but the one on Elasmo should give you an idea. Some sources suggest that fossil I.desori and extant I.oxyrinchus are the same (Shortfin Mako's). The same is true for Longfin Mako's, fossil I.retroflexus and extant I.paucus. I suspect that the reason for differentiating the similar species is simply age. Just to add more controversy, the labial ridge thing might be a red herring based on too few data points. I have some hastalis/oxyrinchus that have that ridge also, and if you look at the modern oxy and the modern paucus teeth on elasmo, it looks like both sets have the ridge to some degree. Personally, I believe the presence of the ridge is more a matter of how well the tooth is preserved, rather than feature specific to retroflexus. Just my opinion, so I could be talking out of my butt, but I have seen quite a few LC makos in the past 10 years, and I do have some friends researching this stuff. Thanks, Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 no you are right eddie but i dont see any sign of the ridge on this tooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilMick Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Sharktoothguy, Nice acquisition.... be careful not to ruin the fun of finding all of these things when you finally get a chance to go to Lee Creek. Don't want to ruin the surprise of what you may find. Are you on a count down yet? ___ days left till Aurora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 no you are right eddie but i dont see any sign of the ridge on this tooth Oh, I agree with you and others that the tooth should be classified as I. hastalis. But I think the raised enamel/ridge thing makes for a good discussion for a couple reasons. First, I don't personally believe it's a trait specific to retroflexus, but is present in both oxy/desori and retroflexus(given perfect preservation.) Secondly, I think I've even had some narrow hastalis that had this raised enamel. And this sort of makes sense, assuming hastalis branched off from desori. So where does one draw the line between narrow hastalis and desori???? At a certain point, I just like to call them Isurus teeth. Here are some pics I took of some of my oxyrinchus/desori and retros with the enamel ridge. Thanks, Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharktoothguy11222 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 Sharktoothguy, Nice acquisition.... be careful not to ruin the fun of finding all of these things when you finally get a chance to go to Lee Creek. Don't want to ruin the surprise of what you may find. Are you on a count down yet? ___ days left till Aurora As of this morning, 739 days to I am old enough to get into LEE CREEK!!!! You think I'm obsessed about LEE CREEK!!!, you haven't seen nothin' yet Tha tighin fodham, fodham, fodham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharktoothguy11222 Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 These are my lee creek oxyrhinchus/desori. The last one is a KILLER at just over 2 inches!!! I think some of them may have the enamel bridge as well. Sorry, poor lighting, the sun won't be out well for another 1/2 hour. Tha tighin fodham, fodham, fodham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoRon Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Pic #5 is a dermal scute from Acipencer, a sturgeon. They sometimes look crock-ish but the pattern is more irregular and the flat side often shows the typical laminated construction seen in fish bones. Pic #8 is a sperm whale tooth, a dolphin periotic (ear) bone, and two skull elements (gill region) from a pufferfish. Pic #11 is a pair of fish "noses" from Sarda (Bonita) sp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worthy 55 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 great finds and I think everyone has IDed it all. Cool !!!!!!! It's my bone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 These are my lee creek oxyrhinchus/desori. The last one is a KILLER at just over 2 inches!!! I think some of them may have the enamel bridge as well. very nice makos!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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