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Lair Of Ancient 'kraken' Sea Monster


Archimedes

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was thinking about this again yesterday and would have to file it as hard to believe. First of all, we'd have to read the actual article to go beyond the author's own quick version. One thing to consider is that an ichthyosaur vertebra looks a lot like a hockey puck. The most likely result of the decomposition of the body would be that each vertebra would fall over on a flat side, or "face up" (either the face oriented in the direction of the head or the one oriented toward the tail). We might expect some to fall one way and the others to fall the other but in a roughly linear pattern on a relatively undisturbed sea bottom, especially if it was deepwater somewhere beyond the continental shelf.

Also, I'm not sure it would be possible to break the neck of a shoniosaur as their necks were very short - almost like their heads were connected directly to the body. A super-large cephalopod might be as massive as a 45-foot shoniosaur so it would be a struggle just trying to keep it from surfacing to breathe. Even if it did drown it, the "kraken" would still have to tow the body to its "lair." What would a 45-foot ichthyosaur weigh? I'm thinking 2 tons at least and maybe 3-4 tons.

I was looking at that photo. It appears some of the vertebrae are cracked at least part of the way through. Ribs are easier to crack than vertebrae so the same agent could have cracked both over time (fractures in the rock).

The other thing I thought of is that, yes, an octopus has a lair and it ejects its "garbage" (bones, shells of its prey) outside the lair, an "octopus' garden." It squeezes into a hole or an equally suitable space in a coral reef but where does a 100-foot octopus hide (or does it just have a favorite spot on the seafloor?)? I would think an octopus that big eats wherever it catches its prey.

One thing I do agree on is that a 100-foot cephalopod would be extremely rare because it would be a prime meal over much of its life for shoniosaurs, other marine reptiles, and maybe some fishes.

In any case I will try to find this article and a paleontologist to bother about it. This is a topic for critical thinking as promoted in a current thread about the teacher who didn't think whales had backbones. I hope to read more comments.

Interesting theroy to be presented at the annual GSA meeting

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I read somewhere that a whale shark in the range of 40 feet weighs about 12 tons, so you guess for the Ichthyosaur's weight is rather on the low side. This wold make it even harder for the cephalopod to take the Shoniosaur down. Also the world record great whit shark at 20 feet weighted in at 2.3 tons.

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When I first read this I thought it was written as a joke, particularly when I got to this paragraph:

"The arranged vertebrae also seemed to resemble the pattern of sucker disks on a cephalopod's tentacle, with each vertebra strongly resembling a sucker made by a member of the Coleoidea, which includes octopuses, squid, cuttlefish and their relatives. The researchers suggest this pattern reveals a self-portrait of the mysterious beast."

I was getting the image of a squid staring at his tentacle while trying to arrange bones to look like the suckers on his arm.

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Release the Kraken!!! I had to say that. While we are on the subject of a kraken, the Greeks had a lot of mythical creatures. I had watched a program on tv about how the greeks might have started the myth. The question about fossils being the factor for starting the stories about monsters had risen. One scientist suggested that the sight of fossils being found in ancient times was the basis of all the stories. He suggested that the Greeks thought the bones not to be millions of years old but years or maybe decades. For instance, the skull of a mammoth could have been the basis for cyclops. The skull appeared to only have one hole for an eye and the Greeks would reconstruct the bones compared to their own body structure. Now I do not know if the early Greeks knew about fossils or not but I thought this was an interesting theory.

Chelebele

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This whole thing could have been published in The Onion...

Someone please hand that scientist an Occam's Razor. :blink:

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I find it more likely that the original leaning domino arrangement of vertebra \\ \\ \\ \\ was moved around by a strong current to a more aero/aqua-dynamic arrangement, i.e. lying flat.

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Release the Kraken!!! I had to say that. While we are on the subject of a kraken, the Greeks had a lot of mythical creatures. I had watched a program on tv about how the greeks might have started the myth. The question about fossils being the factor for starting the stories about monsters had risen. One scientist suggested that the sight of fossils being found in ancient times was the basis of all the stories. He suggested that the Greeks thought the bones not to be millions of years old but years or maybe decades. For instance, the skull of a mammoth could have been the basis for cyclops. The skull appeared to only have one hole for an eye and the Greeks would reconstruct the bones compared to their own body structure. Now I do not know if the early Greeks knew about fossils or not but I thought this was an interesting theory.

Follow My link and see post #75, 76 and 77 for some cool examples ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Follow My link and see post #75, 76 and 77 for some cool examples wink.gif

That is very interesting, the mosasaur especially. How could they have known what the creatures looked like? Could the animals really have existed during 550 BC?

Chelebele

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That is very interesting, the mosasaur especially. How could they have known what the creatures looked like? Could the animals really have existed during 550 BC?

I think that they were as smart as us and when they found a big reptile skeleton they could extrapolate a close approximation of their original morphology.

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This whole thing could have been published in The Onion...

Someone please hand that scientist an Occam's Razor. blink.gif

I second that...It's a bit of a ridiculous idea, but it amuses me to no end...

What a wonderful menagerie! Who would believe that such as register lay buried in the strata? To open the leaves, to unroll the papyrus, has been an intensely interesting though difficult work, having all the excitement and marvelous development of a romance. And yet the volume is only partly read. Many a new page I fancy will yet be opened. -- Edward Hitchcock, 1858

Formerly known on the forum as Crimsonraptor

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  • 10 years later...

My head hurts... :SadSmile:

Accomplishing the impossible means only that the boss will add it to your regular duties.

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