Frank Menser Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Just got this in. It is from Mongolia and is Cretaceous. No Further ID. Anyone? Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas-Tunnel Rat Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 can we get a close up and flipped (left to right starting with cranial) photos please. Rock material does look like some of the material from China but not sure cant see the bone well enough to judge reptile or not. I assume thats all the info you have, no stratigraphic information? PUBLICATIONS Dallas Paleontology Society Occasional Papers Vol. 9 2011 "Pennsylvanian Stratigraphy and Paleoecology of Outcrops in Jacksboro, Texas" Author Texas Paleontology Society Feb, 2011 "Index Fossils and You" A primer on how to utilize fossils to assist in relative age dating strata" Author Quotes "Beer, Bacon, and Bivalves!" "Say NO to illegal fossil buying / selling" "They belong in a museum." Education Associates of Science - 2011 Bachelors of Science (Geology & Biology) - 2012 est. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Congratulations on a fabulous fossil Frank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniraptoran Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 heck, congratulations for simply being in mongolia! :greenwnvy: :notfair: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Ghost 27 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Very interesting find. Are you going to clean it up any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 heck, congratulations for simply being in mongolia! :greenwnvy: :notfair: Wish I'D been there. This was a purchase. Will try to get better pics posted tomorrow. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opisthotriton Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 It is pretty. Just be careful with Mongolian fossils (same for Chinese): Although it's perfectly legal to buy and sell them in the US, it's illegal to remove them from Mongolia/China - so while you're free to buy it in the US, be aware that someone broke the law to bring it here. If it's real: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0624_040623_dinoauction_2.html http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090202/full/news.2009.60.html http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~jbliberm/smuggling.html http://tribes.tribe.net/fansorpaleo/thread/947c5039-4f4d-4b1e-8ed2-d3379fa7d856 If it's not: http://www.jpaleontologicaltechniques.org/pasta3/JPT%20N2/Pdf/JPT_n002_Jul.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Well, it's a big lizard (photo is low res but the teeth appear lizard-like) and that matrix does look like the rock that also yields some Mongolian dinosaurs (oviraptors, ankylosaurs, Gallimimus). You can try consulting a faunal list based on that. I don't know how well-documented the lizards are from there. I do know the bone from there is extremely fragile relative to the matrix, so if you're thinking about further prep, you better be really good at it already. The matrix on that particular specimen looks like it already has a ton of glue on it so you will want to carefully apply acetone to spots around where you want to expose more of the bone and then use needles or scalpels to gently scrape away the matrix. If you're really good with a scribe, you can use that but a micro-jack is the better move for fine work which is what is needed for that piece. I would not try to clean individual teeth with a scribe. Just got this in. It is from Mongolia and is Cretaceous. No Further ID. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmerlin Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Well, it's a big lizard (photo is low res but the teeth appear lizard-like) and that matrix does look like the rock that also yields some Mongolian dinosaurs (oviraptors, ankylosaurs, Gallimimus). You can try consulting a faunal list based on that. I don't know how well-documented the lizards are from there. I do know the bone from there is extremely fragile relative to the matrix, so if you're thinking about further prep, you better be really good at it already. The matrix on that particular specimen looks like it already has a ton of glue on it so you will want to carefully apply acetone to spots around where you want to expose more of the bone and then use needles or scalpels to gently scrape away the matrix. If you're really good with a scribe, you can use that but a micro-jack is the better move for fine work which is what is needed for that piece. I would not try to clean individual teeth with a scribe. Very good tips I havent done much prep work so these tips will come in very handy thanks :) "A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinopaleus Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) frank, with all due respect... that thing is completely illegal! looking at that fossil makes me angry. if you bought it, then im really upset cuz i know that you know better! i know its hard to resist to have something like that in a collection. however, someone broke the law to do that! they snuck into government-owned property, stole the fossil out of the rocks, broke a lot more in the process, sold it to some 'clueless' foreigner for some $, and they're going to get more! and break more! more more more for the sake of money! this isn't right! this should all just stop. frank, those illegal thieves dont...care...about fossils. they also don't give if they encourage people to do more illegal digging. buying these from them encourages them more. but since that you already have the fossil... and since that it's too late, just take care of the fossil and good luck with it. please do hope that it isn't a new discovery or species or a very important fossil, or else the chinese government (if inner mongolia)/mongolian government (outer mongolia) will request it back. Edited October 14, 2011 by JohnJ profanity is not allowed on The Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 frank, with all due respect... that thing is completely illegal! looking at that fossil makes me angry. if you bought it, then im really upset cuz i know that you know better! i know its hard to resist to have something like that in a collection. however, someone broke the law to do that! they snuck into government-owned property, stole the fossil out of the rocks, broke a lot more in the process, sold it to some 'clueless' foreigner for some $, and they're going to get more! and break more! more more more for the sake of money! this isn't right! this should all just stop. request it back. I know this fossil has changed hands at least once in the USA before it was aquired by a dealer who has an impeccable reputation--who I have done business with for several years. A lot of the illegal issues have to do with when it was taken from China and by who. Sometimes they have allowed dealers to sell, sometimes government officials sell. This issue has come up before on the forum. Here are some more shots. The matrix is a close match for Dinosaur egg material I have. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Nothing is accomplished trying to litigate the provenance or legality of this fossil. Without the actual field collection data it is impossible to say with specificity what, when, or where with regard to this specimen. Frank has hit the nail on the head pointing out the fickle attitude and stance about the fossil trade in China and Mongolia. By definition the laws and remedies are quite severe, yet there are scores of dealers who have been operating for many years without fear of recourse from the government. Truth be told, those types of pressures are selectively brought to bear when a scapegoat is needed for a sensational news story. Everyone else continues to do business, either in the light of day or in the backrooms of the major fossil conventions. Good old MOOLA is the determining factor always and a quick tally of prices fetched for some of these fossils indicates there is plenty to go around for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 One could allways take a tally of the fossil dealers on Ebay -- and on this forum who sell China Fossils. An interesting amount of them are in fact, Chinese. Many of these dealers refer to Chinese mines openly. If enforcement was uniform (not Capricious)I don't beleave they would be tollerated selling openly. In the case of this fossil, I purchased from an Amerian, who bought it from another American. I do not know its history before that. Plese excuse my bad typing. I am having a Gout attack and am reduced to using one finger. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinopaleus Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 as long as you know what you're doing frank, then i believe in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 So, new pics posted. Any ideas of what this is? Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) Frank, Found these online - Dont know if they help. Second PDF looks vaguely similar - I'm having trouble with the orientation here - not sure if that is the lower jaw or upper jaw/skull that is mostly exposed. Link #1 : Scroll down midpage to open and view/save the file. Link # 2 I apologize if you've already found these. Regards, Edited October 15, 2011 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Frank, Found these online - Dont know if they help. Second PDF looks vaguely similar - I'm having trouble with the orientation here - not sure if that is the lower jaw or upper jaw/skull that is mostly exposed. Link #1 : Scroll down midpage to open and view/save the file. Link # 2 I apologize if you've already found these. Regards, much appreciated. i am down to one finger typing right now, so prowling the net for anything is difficult. even if it isn't that, i get a new reference site! looking at this, i am inclined to agree with an iguanid. the pictures are top side up. the bare patch in the lower jaw certainly creates the illusion of an eye socket but it isn't. Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Rôôôôôhhh ! Your 1st link doesn't want to work ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Menser Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Rôôôôôhhh ! Your 1st link doesn't want to work ! Coco i connected with the first, but foundthe second link to be much more useful. i am intrigued though about the idea of it being an iguanid. in modern times iguanids are very rare in the old world, their niches filled by agamids. ineresting ... Be true to the reality you create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 On 10/16/2011 at 3:50 AM, Coco said: Rôôôôôhhh ! Your 1st link doesn't want to work ! Coco Sorry Coco! It is still working fine for me. The link brings me to a page, then scroll down to where it says open/view the file. That one works for me as well. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Sorry Coco! It is still working fine for me. The link brings me to a page, then scroll down to where it says open/veiw the file. That one works for me as well. Regards, Today still it doesn't want to work. Too bad ! Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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