The Tucson Fossil Shows 2012: One Collector's Report

[siteseer]

The various gem-mineral-fossil shows that are collectively known as "The Tucson Show" ended last Sunday. Many people consider the official end to be the close of the main show at the convention center but many dealers are long gone by then at the other shows.

I've been going to the Tucson shows since 1989 with some missed years in the early 2000's. I've seen established shows disappear or change venue with even the names of the venues changing two or three times. The town had seemed to deteriorate over time, but this year, Tucson looked a little clear - perhaps because construction on the highway that cuts near much of the action has finally been completed after several years of roadwork and associated detours.

Much of my interest lies with fossil shark teeth so much of my attention was focused in that direction but I couldn't help seeing a variety of specimens and this report will include a few mentions of other vertebrates and some invertebrates. I don't have any photos to include at the moment though I will try to add some soon (specimens I acquired).

Part of the problem is that a growing number of dealers frown on or outright refuse to allow photographs to be taken. Some of the specimen photos that have been taken in the past have ended up on Ebay or as other online offers even though the photographer didn't own the specimen. The photographer would include the dealer's business card in the shot so that dealer is the one mired in later turmoil while the photographer is the one would gets the money and disappears.

Another scam involves a photographer bird-dogging a team of seasoned thieves to valuable specimens. They shoot high-dollar items (clued in by the asking price on the sticker) and then shop the photos to customers and then another member of the team just steals the specimens. Someone distracts the dealer with questions/conversation while an accomplice quickly palms a specimen into a pouch or into clothing. Some dealers make good targets especially if they have big, undermanned booths and they have hand-sized specimens worth at least several hundred dollars on a table. Most dealers don't lose things that are worth $5-10. That's not worth the risk they are willing to take.

Two years ago, a friend lost a $2000 meteorite with the distraction ploy.

The other problem with photography is that the lighting is often not close to optimum especially in the rooms or in a tent where natural light cannot reach. A problem I had was that much of the time I was in town was taken helping a friend in his booth. I didn't bring a camera and wanted to go buy one but didn't have much opportunity to go to a store. Perhaps someone else was able to take some photos of the displays particularly in the Tucson City Center Hotel (former Innsuites Hotel) ballroom?

During the couple of days before the show opened at the Tucson City Center, I had some time to look around. One room was shared by a few dealers. One of them had an assortment of shark teeth from the Eocene and Miocene of Peru - some nice auriculatus and some beautiful hastalis with great color (shiny reddish with darker streaks, other multi-colored specimens). It was more Peru stuff on one table than I had seen in years. Apparently, someone had either thinned out part of his old collection or it was an old collection. The lighting wasn't the greatest in the room and the prices were high but several teeth did sell quickly. I saw some great whites from Mexico, a nicely-colored meg from the Calvert Cliffs, and a well-preserved Desmostylus from the the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed (not a shark - an extinct marine mammal with no close modern relative).

I saw the Helicoprion specimen that someone mentioned elsewhere here on the forum. I hadn't seen one for sale in maybe fifteen years though someone told me that a couple were available at a Denver show maybe 5-6 years ago. The whorl was shiny black on black matrix and spiraled out to cover at least the space of a large grapefruit.

I saw numerous Paleozoic shark teeth for sale (some from the U.S; some from Europe) and prices were high. My problem is that I recall a nice Petalodus being about a $40-50 tooth around 15 years ago, but now, it's a $150-200 tooth. More people try to restore shark teeth these days too so you have to look for that when you like less-common genera or species. Some nice things become more in-demand, and therefore more valuable, over time.

In the ballroom at the Tucson City Center Lynne Clos of The Fossil News was offering back issues from 2010 for a buck each. I bought one of each of the different available issues. A few days later, she told me to take some for free because she wanted to lighten the load home.

Perhaps one of my more interesting finds was a juvenile megalodon from the Bone Valley Formation. It's just over 1 1/2 inches (about 4cm) with a light gray root and a dark gray crown. Some of the serrations are chipped off and the bourlette has been worn off but the root is in great shape. The crown seemed unusually thick and I confirmed it when I got it home. It's more inflated (especially labially) than another "Hubbell" I have of about the same size. I couldn't pass it up at $10.

I saw some Sharktooth Hill Bonebed material for sale and bought two Allodesmus astraguli (ankle bones) and a nice postcanine tooth. These teeth often bear well-worn crowns. The weird thing with the wear pattern is that the tip is generally in good shape but the mesial and distal sides are worn from contact with the opposing teeth.

I talked to a couple of forum members at different times during the show: isurus90064 and veomega.

I will try to write more tomorrow...

[Mexx]

thanks for sharing your experience. I always like to hear reports from the Tucons show, as it is much too far away for me to go there personally.

[trilobiteruss]

Good report, I found the photography limitation also this year with things I would have liked to photograph just with my iphone. They told me the same problem, too bad. I found the selection in the invertebrates I was looking at (crinoids and trilobites) to be highest during the 3 preshow days the dealers were already open during, things started going after that and by mid first week selection was down to more of what I would call usual stuff.

[erik m]

The various gem-mineral-fossil shows that are collectively known as "The Tucson Show" ended last Sunday. Many people consider the official end to be the close of the main show at the convention center but many dealers are long gone by then at the other shows.

I've been going to the Tucson shows since 1989 with some missed years in the early 2000's. I've seen established shows disappear or change venue with even the names of the venues changing two or three times. The town had seemed to deteriorate over time, but this year, Tucson looked a little clear - perhaps because construction on the highway that cuts near much of the action has finally been completed after several years of roadwork and associated detours.

Much of my interest lies with fossil shark teeth so much of my attention was focused in that direction but I couldn't help seeing a variety of specimens and this report will include a few mentions of other vertebrates and some invertebrates. I don't have any photos to include at the moment though I will try to add some soon (specimens I acquired).

Part of the problem is that a growing number of dealers frown on or outright refuse to allow photographs to be taken. Some of the specimen photos that have been taken in the past have ended up on Ebay or as other online offers even though the photographer didn't own the specimen. The photographer would include the dealer's business card in the shot so that dealer is the one mired in later turmoil while the photographer is the one would gets the money and disappears.

Another scam involves a photographer bird-dogging a team of seasoned thieves to valuable specimens. They shoot high-dollar items (clued in by the asking price on the sticker) and then shop the photos to customers and then another member of the team just steals the specimens. Someone distracts the dealer with questions/conversation while an accomplice quickly palms a specimen into a pouch or into clothing. Some dealers make good targets especially if they have big, undermanned booths and they have hand-sized specimens worth at least several hundred dollars on a table. Most dealers don't lose things that are worth $5-10. That's not worth the risk they are willing to take.

Two years ago, a friend lost a $2000 meteorite with the distraction ploy.

The other problem with photography is that the lighting is often not close to optimum especially in the rooms or in a tent where natural light cannot reach. A problem I had was that much of the time I was in town was taken helping a friend in his booth. I didn't bring a camera and wanted to go buy one but didn't have much opportunity to go to a store. Perhaps someone else was able to take some photos of the displays particularly in the Tucson City Center Hotel (former Innsuites Hotel) ballroom?

During the couple of days before the show opened at the Tucson City Center, I had some time to look around. One room was shared by a few dealers. One of them had an assortment of shark teeth from the Eocene and Miocene of Peru - some nice auriculatus and some beautiful hastalis with great color (shiny reddish with darker streaks, other multi-colored specimens). It was more Peru stuff on one table than I had seen in years. Apparently, someone had either thinned out part of his old collection or it was an old collection. The lighting wasn't the greatest in the room and the prices were high but several teeth did sell quickly. I saw some great whites from Mexico, a nicely-colored meg from the Calvert Cliffs, and a well-preserved Desmostylus from the the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed (not a shark - an extinct marine mammal with no close modern relative).

I saw the Helicoprion specimen that someone mentioned elsewhere here on the forum. I hadn't seen one for sale in maybe fifteen years though someone told me that a couple were available at a Denver show maybe 5-6 years ago. The whorl was shiny black on black matrix and spiraled out to cover at least the space of a large grapefruit.

I saw numerous Paleozoic shark teeth for sale (some from the U.S; some from Europe) and prices were high. My problem is that I recall a nice Petalodus being about a $40-50 tooth around 15 years ago, but now, it's a $150-200 tooth. More people try to restore shark teeth these days too so you have to look for that when you like less-common genera or species. Some nice things become more in-demand, and therefore more valuable, over time.

In the ballroom at the Tucson City Center Lynne Clos of The Fossil News was offering back issues from 2010 for a buck each. I bought one of each of the different available issues. A few days later, she told me to take some for free because she wanted to lighten the load home.

Perhaps one of my more interesting finds was a juvenile megalodon from the Bone Valley Formation. It's just over 1 1/2 inches (about 4cm) with a light gray root and a dark gray crown. Some of the serrations are chipped off and the bourlette has been worn off but the root is in great shape. The crown seemed unusually thick and I confirmed it when I got it home. It's more inflated (especially labially) than another "Hubbell" I have of about the same size. I couldn't pass it up at $10.

I saw some Sharktooth Hill Bonebed material for sale and bought two Allodesmus astraguli (ankle bones) and a nice postcanine tooth. These teeth often bear well-worn crowns. The weird thing with the wear pattern is that the tip is generally in good shape but the mesial and distal sides are worn from contact with the opposing teeth.

I talked to a couple of forum members at different times during the show: isurus90064 and veomega.

I will try to write more tomorrow...

Good report to read Just like Mex I live to far away to go there.

You told aboud that littel Bone Valley meg I think I have also one that looks like that only this one is green.

Edited February 15, 2012 by erik m

[sseth]

The Tucson Show is a favorite of mine as well. I am now up to taking a truck and trailer to tote home all of my finds. It seems like every year I am able to find many items that are just so incredible that I simply can not leave them there and not bring them home with me. I also find it a great place to pick up projects and meet with friends from the forum and customers.

I know another place uses the slogan the "Happiest place on earth," but for me this just about sums up Tucson in the months of January and February.

[siteseer]

Yes, mine is like that one in crown thickness.

Good report to read Just like Mex I live to far away to go there.

You told aboud that littel Bone Valley meg I think I have also one that looks like that only this one is green.

[Jesse]

Nice report, to bad about the photography. Thanks for taking the time to share!

Here is the specimen I was told about, a little bigger than a grapefruit though

[siteseer]

Part 2 of my report...

I saw some great specimens including a matrix piece with a Mesocyon skull with associated bones. Mesocyon is a lesser-known Late Oligocene dog known from the region of the Dakotas and Oregon. I was told it sold and to a dealer so you should be seeing it online sometime soon. The same dealer had an even rarer piece, a near-complete skeleton of a Perchoerus, an Early Oligocene peccary. Isolated teeth and jaw sections are what you usually find of this animal and even those aren't common. I'm not sure its skeleton is completely known yet.

Another dealer had a different oddball American Badlands specimen. It was an Early Miocene oreodont skull from South Dakota - an old collection piece. By the Early Miocene oreodonts were less common (occasional finds in the Dakotas and Florida). It was big too, making me think it could be Eporedon but the dealer told me it didn't match well to that but could be an undescribed close relative. The skull was particularly striking because the bone was white and the teeth were black.

Another dealer had a cool, large starfish on matrix with a shell from the Miocene of France. It was much like the multi-armed ones I'd seen from Florida (Helioaster?).

In the Tucson City Center I saw a Gorgosaurus jaw with several teeth for sale. It was already in nice shape when the collector found it (he did some prep to clean it up a little more) and I heard it did sell for a tidy sum.

By the first Monday of the show most of the fossil collectors were either on their way home or saying their farewells. Most prefer to be there for the beginning and at least see a lot of "the good stuff," though it is also a good strategy to be there at the end to prowl for incredible bargains. The next day, Richard Milner, the author of a new book on Charles R. Knight, was wandering the shows, letting people know he would be participating in a multi-author book signing at The Tucson City Center ballroom the following day. He had a sample copy with him and it looked great. I assume many members here know Knight's work, but for the newbies, he was the artist whose sketches and paintings helped popularize paleontology during the early 20th century. He collaborated with scientists to create works of great anatomical accuracy. His love of wildlife art prepared him for a legendary career despite trouble with his eyesight. Photos of his museum murals and other works adorned many of the prehistoric animal books of my childhood. Needless to say, I made sure I was over there in time to buy a copy. The other two authors were Lynne Clos, signing her 2008 book, "North America Through Time" and her 2003 "Field Adventures in Paleontology," and John Babiarz, a co-author of last year's "The Other Sabertooths." The title of Milner's book is "Charles R. Knight: The Artist Who Saw through Time" and I have started reading it (watch for a positive review in the forum's literature section sometime soon).

Around this time I had spotted some interesting bones on a back table of one of the dealer rooms. There was a flat almost full of horse astraguli and another one with bags of horse teeth from the same locality in Nebraska. The bag label said "Pliocene" but the teeth appeared to be of at least two different hipparion-like horses and they had disappeared from that part of North America by the end of the Miocene. The teeth reminded me of the forms from the Late Miocene Bone Valley Formation and were certainly younger than the Merychippus-like horses of the Middle Miocene. In the room I saw more bones from the site and I ended up buying a few horse astraguli, a small carnivoran astragulus (maybe a fox-size dog), a calcaneum that appeared to be from a camel, and a couple of bags of horse teeth. The astraguli were $5 each, which I thought was a fair price after seeing astraguli of about the same age offered for $30 at another dealer's booth (and his didn't have good site data). I plan to show these bones to a friend who studies horses to confirm some ID's.

I saw a few other cool specimens as I wandered the shows. One was a fossil sea lion skull from the Pleistocene of Alaska. It had black bone and black teeth. It was in really nice shape and something I had not seen from Alaska before. Other interesting fossil marine mammal pieces were two dugong teeth from the Peace River (Florida) and an Allodesmus skull from the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed. The skull was actually something I had helped prep a few years ago. One time when I was near the booth, I overheard the dealer accurately point out where the restoration was to a potential customer and that was good to hear.

I saw some expensive Edestus teeth. For a crown with a little root the price was $350. For a crown with a decent amount of root, you needed to have $700-750. Does anyone really pay that much for those? In the 90's you could buy a tooth with root for $10 or less.

One dealer with a lot of nice Moroccan material had some chalcedony-replaced gastropods from the Eocene of Morocco. Some of the specimens were very well-preserved and exhibited an attractive degree of translucence. You could pick through a box of near-complete ones for $2 each or you could save time and just get one of the featured complete specimens on a shelf for $5. I opted for the latter but now think I should have bought a few more.

One thing I noticed about the shows was the noticeably lesser amount of megalodon teeth from New Caledonia. One dealer used to cover at least one table with them and a few others would have a good assortment as well. I might have seen just a half-table's worth on this trip. New Caledonia's government no longer allows dredging for the teeth but perhaps tons of them were collected over the past couple of decades and one might expect that a few divers have a hoard of them. On the other hand most of the teeth are beat-up with nearly every one of them polished to the point of being less of a shark tooth collector's specimen and more of a tourist's last-minute whim.

One dealer had a great selection of Santana invertebrates including a number of dragonflies and a couple of scorpions. It had been a while since I had since a literal wall of them. I saw Veomega over there a couple of times. One of my friends is a biologist in California and he was eyeballing some of the bugs as well.

A couple of dealers had some beautiful ammonites for sale: the ones from southern Canada with the red nacre exposed and some from South Dakota with the nacre bearing more of the pearlescent color of an abalone shell interior. One dealer did a favor for another by giving his friend an unusually-deep discount on one of his best specimens. I witnessed a few good deeds around the shows (people going out of their way to be polite or generous).

It appeared to me that quite a few dealers did very well though a couple of them confided that their success hinged on 2-3 very good sales. The guys with a lot of shark teeth or trilobites tend to do well. It did not appear that the Green River fish people did as well as they used to though one guy did sell out his room. One of the most eye-catching Green River pieces was a large Amia in the Tucson City Center ballroom and a close second was a branch at least a foot long with a few leaves on the same slab with a well-preserved Phareodus.

On my last day in town I picked up a Heterodontus lateral tooth from the Miocene of Australia. It had suffered some water-wear with the root eroded away but the transverse crest and some of the ornamentation in the crown was still visible so it was interesting enough especially since you do not see a lot of fossil shark teeth from Australia.

One of my best finds was also my last purchase. I was looking through one of the tents and stopped to check out some flats of one of the Moroccan dealers. I was thinking about buying a nice mosasaur or plesiosaur tooth leaving my options open for anything unusual and inexpensive. In an Otodus flat I spotted an irregular form. Five minutes later and only four dollars poorer, I was the owner of a Palaeocarcharodon tooth reflecting a stage in the evolution of the genus before the cutting edges were serrated. It is an off-white color much like many shark/ray teeth from Early Paleocene beds in Morocco, though of course you can't go by just color so it could be a little younger than that. The edges show some chipping but it is a keeper especially for the price. A few years ago, I had hesitated on a similar specimen at ten times the amount a few years ago and someone else bought it before I could visit it again.

If you have never gone to the shows, you should do what you can to go at least once in your life. You might meet a few of the online dealers you have been buying from and you can hang out with friends you might not see face-to-face otherwise. Some scientists check out the shows as well and they are interesting to talk to. If you go early, you might run into Gordon Hubbell or David Ward. Some European dealers go there on business obviously but perhaps half the reason they come is the weather so it's partly a winter break for them as well. It's sunny at least half the time and the days were warm the whole time I was there. I always enjoy the shows and call each trip a success even if I acquire just a couple of cheap but interesting fossils and a good book.

[siteseer]

Yeah, I should have said "pumpkin" but at least now you know I'm not given to exaggeration. Thanks for posting that.

Nice report, to bad about the photography. Thanks for taking the time to share! Here is the specimen I was told about, a little bigger than a grapefruit though

[siteseer]

Yes, as you know, some specimens never even get displayed (already sold; just being delivered so the customer can pick them up in person). Sometimes, if you know both the seller and buyer, you get to see something special.

Good report, I found the photography limitation also this year with things I would have liked to photograph just with my iphone. They told me the same problem, too bad. I found the selection in the invertebrates I was looking at (crinoids and trilobites) to be highest during the 3 preshow days the dealers were already open during, things started going after that and by mid first week selection was down to more of what I would call usual stuff.

[-Andy-]

If I ever had any doubts about visiting the Tuscon Fossil Show one day, I don't now.

Your write-up is incredible!

[siteseer]

Andy,

And consider that is just what I took notes on. There was all kinds of other stuff (not seen or seen and forgotten) and something jogs my memory every day. There was the story of a Texas collector who walked into a room mere seconds after a French collector had entered and picked up to examine an unusually-large, well-preserved example of one of the Cretaceous of Texas echinoids. The Texan was waiting for the Frenchman to put it back on the table but he bought it instead. The Texas guy was absolutely distraught because it was apparently the most incredible specimen of that taxon he had ever heard of. I think he even tried to make the buyer a bigger offer but he was a collector too and intended to keep it. Then, the Texas guy just wanted a photo of it but he was starting to make the French guy a little uncomfortable with his hovering. I don't know if he got his photo or if he was stuck with a fish story to tell back home.

Jess

If I ever had any doubts about visiting the Tuscon Fossil Show one day, I don't now.

Your write-up is incredible!

[trilobiteruss]

Nice report, to bad about the photography. Thanks for taking the time to share!

Here is the specimen I was told about, a little bigger than a grapefruit though

Wow never seen one with so much of the whorls preserved.

[trilobiteruss]

Yes, as you know, some specimens never even get displayed (already sold; just being delivered so the customer can pick them up in person). Sometimes, if you know both the seller and buyer, you get to see something special.

That also, it was simply nice to have been there early to see some unique items that are not there much later, as well as those specials that now reside in my own collection of trilobites now And as mentioned also just to finally meet some new friends, dealers I had been getting some trilobites from and now to meet in person. (and to plan trips with them in future to go and find a few myself -as a retired geologist/paleontologist always nice to go to places they come from and have thrill of finding my own treasure!!!! ;) )

Edited February 16, 2012 by dinoruss

[Auspex]

"Hunting the Tucson Formation" is now on my bucket list.

[trilobiteruss]

"Hunting the Tucson Formation" is now on my bucket list.

:D :D

[Nandomas]

Great report I am sorry for the pictures.

Lynne is really a kind person

[cowsharks]

Loved reading through the report(s). Too bad about taking pics, although on things like shark teeth you can just put the sticker on the back of the tooth...but that means folks would have to handle the tooth, flip it over to see the price.

Daryl.