BFunderburk Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) The initial photos I posted were these in situ. Usually found in sedimentary rabble/float and only occasionally more than one. Might be best to study arrangement there. Edited March 2, 2012 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 It is strange to see a concentration of partial crab claws......however I submit the following for scrutiny. The nature of the material doesn't look like Inoceramus to me. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Now a different type of claw, not sure of genus, first of this type I've found in the Kco actually, but have a looksee at the shell material revealed in section. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 And now for another claw, not sure of genus, no response from Gale Bishop either. This is still another genus of crab different from the focus of the discussion, but as you can see, some crab claws can crush easily. This one looks like it would have fallen apart if not found cemented with marl in the bottom of an oyster shell. Back to observed differences between this crab material and Inoceramus...that latter seems more crystalline to me, and when fractured the cross section seems to have more of a grain structure. So I submit all this to you guys and gals for "fresh eyes review". Let me know if you see my specimens as valid comparisons to the original post. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yes, by all means the first one, danwoehr! Texas? And species? Now we are making progress. Thank you- enlightened by all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 No idea on even genus....I'll defer to the experts. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 I found a 4 piece one of these that I'll photo and post- NOT inoceramus clam hinge! Very strange claw part found at end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Danwoehr- (and Anthony) you are right on the money. Definitely crustacean of some kind. Wait till you see my photo- tomorrow; have found 50 of that snout shaped deal; but never a claw like form at the end of it. WOW! Soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Edited November 20, 2012 by BFunderburk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 OK! Now we're cooking! Found several pieces of this "crustacean claw-like" form at BorrowPit on HWY 182 in Oktibbeha Co., MS. When I put these parts together, fitting perfectly, this was the first time I ever found the jaw-like, long piece (always think of a crocodile snout when I see the long, triangular part with undulations and a bump on the small end) WITH that claw-like part. Note that the "under side" of these usually have repeated teeth-like shapes, sometimes a darker material. On this new specimen, the teeth segments were missing, and the snout end connected with the claw part, but it is still very strange to me. NOT an inoceramus at all; similar to those crustacean parts (Texas) shared by AnThOnY and Danwoehr. So, what in the heck? I did temporarily glue these pieces together/can separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squalicorax Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 hmm that is strange. are you sure that "claw" goes on the end there? My Flickr Page of My Collection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/79424101@N00/sets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I can say this with 100% absolute surity. These are clam hinge parts. There are no crab fossils in the Niobrara (at least not that I've seen), yet there are millions (and I mean MILLIONS) of these types of fossils everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I can say this with 100% absolute surity. These are clam hinge parts. There are no crab fossils in the Niobrara (at least not that I've seen), yet there are millions (and I mean MILLIONS) of these types of fossils everywhere. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microplax Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I can say this with 100% absolute surity. These are clam hinge parts. There are no crab fossils in the Niobrara (at least not that I've seen), yet there are millions (and I mean MILLIONS) of these types of fossils everywhere. Agreed Forget the Inoceramus shells - This is def crustacean material, pincers and parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Forget the Inoceramus shells - This is def crustacean material, pincers and parts. If they are crab parts, with the number of specimens shown and the thickness of the pieces, a crab carapace would be easily found. Also, there would be leg joints present as well. At least a claw knuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 If they are crab parts, with the number of specimens shown and the thickness of the pieces, a crab carapace would be easily found. Also, there would be leg joints present as well. At least a claw knuckle. Claw tips and the insides of crab claws are heavily mineralized with calcium carbonate and apatite to aid in crushing and cutting. The rest of the exoskeleton is mostly chitin that is lightly mineralized. In the formations I collect I rarely find a carapace or legs but claw tips and the inside part of the claw are extremely common. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KansasFossilHunter Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'm seeing Inoceramid clam parts as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'm watching this, with anticipation that a positive ID will show up. Having never found a crab claw, I can't comment on if it looks like a crab claw or not. However I have seen my share of hinges, and the thing that I think really stands out on a hinge, is the way it looks almost fiberous where the breaks are. I mean, if you look at it end wise where a break has occured, it looks just like it's made up of thousands of tiny fibers. Also where you find hinges, you usually (not always thought) find a bunch of other clam pieces. By a bunch, I'm talking thousands. I can't realy tell from the photo what you have, but I hope it's from a crab. Ramo 1 For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Claw tips and the insides of crab claws are heavily mineralized with calcium carbonate and apatite to aid in crushing and cutting. The rest of the exoskeleton is mostly chitin that is lightly mineralized. In the formations I collect I rarely find a carapace or legs but claw tips and the inside part of the claw are extremely common. Very interesting! In the upper cretaceous of Texas, you find mostly carapaces (molts). Claws and legs are a bonus. Even with Lobsters and shrimp. In the coon Creek formation there is a ghost shrimp that the claws and claw connections fossilize, but not the carapace. But the texture of the claws is a dead give away. Edited November 21, 2012 by Boneman007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) http://decapoda.nhm.org/pdfs/26971/26971.pdf The above link will get you to the Cretaceous Crabs of Mississippi by Gale Bishop. I did not find anything that looks like the specimens in question, but the document is for the coon Creek formation, so I dont know what other crab species might exist in the MS cretaceous. Edited November 21, 2012 by Boneman007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Within a particular shellbed in the Olcese Sand, a formation about two million years older than the Sharktooth Hill Bonebed but exposed near some of the same spots, you can find a number of crab claws and claw parts every day. I have found only one possible carapace in maybe five trips total. I haven't heard of anyone finding leg parts but they may be going unnoticed in the matrix. If they are crab parts, with the number of specimens shown and the thickness of the pieces, a crab carapace would be easily found. Also, there would be leg joints present as well. At least a claw knuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Appreciate the heated (but civil) debate. I do not know what these are but there are no other clam-like parts near these triangular, elongated pieces. I'd love to see exactly how these parts might fit into the whole clam shell; a photo or drawing? On the other hand, I can't say that these are crustacean- but that the latest find has a claw-like structure that fits on the end of it. Exciting and strange! Next step: George Phillips at the MS Museum of Natural Science. Will get back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 It is strange to see a concentration of partial crab claws......however I submit the following for scrutiny. The nature of the material doesn't look like Inoceramus to me. The photos here are EXACTLY what I am finding here on the Black (Belt) Prairie in Oktibbeha County, MS. EXACTLY. I have observed hundreds of Inoceramus hinge photos- no. These have the same, definite structure every time. Not clam hinges. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFunderburk Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 http://decapoda.nhm....26971/26971.pdf The above link will get you to the Cretaceous Crabs of Mississippi by Gale Bishop. I did not find anything that looks like the specimens in question, but the document is for the coon Creek formation, so I dont know what other crab species might exist in the MS cretaceous. Thanks! coon Creek is about 60 miles or so north of the Ripley/Prairie Bluff formations in Starkville, MS area. These pieces are clearly not akin to those in G. Bishop's paper. Have not seen anything written about these, nor any visuals in any publication. Yet, other collectors have found these; not utterly uncommon. At moment, thinking they are neither inoceramus or crustacean (although rarely I have found a few crab claw parts here/not associated with these), but SOMETHING ELSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandomas Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Inoceramus parts in my opinion, while in Texas I handled those fossils many times... and my heart jumped more than once seeing those "things" the lack of ornamentation and the fibrous structure are not from crabs. Anway here I drop other ideas (they are just ideas): cephalopods, balanus, some kind of corals, rudists, other kind of big shells parts like Isognomon I have not photos of fossils I am speaking about, but this is the kind of ground where I found them Edited November 23, 2012 by Nandomas Erosion... will be my epitaph! http://www.paleonature.org/ https://fossilnews.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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