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BFunderburk

Mississippi Cretaceous Chalk Find- Jaw Or Crustacean Part?

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paco

I go with crustacean pincer ends, too.

At my spot (greek pliocene) mainly the pincer "fingers" of several decapod species are preserved in the exact same manner. Most frequent finds from a Calappa species, I find part of the propodus front end with the associated dactyls. And these "fingers" are quite thick walled!

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BFunderburk

Thanks, Paco! I WILL publish more photos this weekend of "crustacean parts" from Prairie Bluff, Ripley, and Selma Formations in MS. Thanks for tip on Calappa... do you have photos to share?

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Cole

Very fascinating discussion and great documention.

Good work BF!

Cole~

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BFunderburk

I love this discourse. Thanks, Cole! I am be-mystified by this crabby thing found on our chalk prairies. I will soon post more recent examples that may better show these chelae and how they connect- pincers and legs. So wish I could find more of the body of this form. Hard and aragonite/calcite replaced, these are ubiquitous but, as yet, unclassified. BACK WITH PIX SOON.

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paco

I will take some pics to show you (they are very different from yours in my opinion but for comparison they will be ok)

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BFunderburk

post-7693-0-90859600-1384123176_thumb.jpgpost-7693-0-03661100-1384123185_thumb.jpgpost-7693-0-18130400-1384123192_thumb.jpgpost-7693-0-90859600-1384123176_thumb.jpg post-7693-0-98069000-1384123229_thumb.jpg OK, patient fossil seekers, here are newer shots of northeast Mississippi Cretaceous Prairie Bluff/Ripley Formation crustacean chelae (???) shots from past two years. No, not saying they are from the same species... but found in proximity. INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT YOU THINK!

Edited by BFunderburk

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BFunderburk

OK, learning how to post pix. Sorry. More:

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BFunderburk

And more... These were found near the end parts of these "crab legs". I've found mostly the long triangular segmented parts, the "pincer" like parts, and, rarely, this thinner, elongated end piece. Last shot is another end part altogether.

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Edited by BFunderburk

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BFunderburk

post-7693-0-19952300-1384124475_thumb.jpgpost-7693-0-33880800-1384124479_thumb.jpgpost-7693-0-59386100-1384124505_thumb.pngpost-7693-0-70862500-1384124509_thumb.pngAnd here are other similar sitings of the "crustacean chelae". Fist from field trips in western AL (Prairie Bluff./Ripley/Selma) by the Birmingham Paleontological Society, then from Fossil Forum's AnThOnY, and finally finds from the Paw Paw Formation (Tarrant Co.) TX.

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BFunderburk

Now I am very happy. These images, from:

>http://www.northtexasfossils.com

are from the PawPaw Period in Tarrant County, Texas (Nov., 7, 2007)

Please go back and look at my find of a few days ago- wherein elongated part meets a pincer-like part, very similar to these.

THIS IS MUCH CLOSER TO AN ANSWER than the "inoceramus hinge" direction (no offense, friends). We are getting closer.attachicon.gifCrustacean claws.jpgattachicon.gifNorth Texas Crustaceans.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_8067.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_8063.JPGattachicon.gifIMG_8068.JPG

FYI: THE THIRD, FOURTH, and FIFTH PHOTOS ARE OF MY SPECIMENS (BFunderburk)

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paco

Hello again.

I took some pics of my Pliocene crustacean finds, not to specifically add anything to the id conversation for your speciments but I had promissed to do so for reasons of comparison.

First pics of Calappa sp. pincer "fingers" (the largest dactyl is a little larger then 3cm ~ 1 inch).The other picture combo is that of a pincer end preparation of another species, also pliocene. I think this one is Uca sp. but it's hard to know for sure with a speciment in such shape... Still looking for other exoskeleton parts I can associate with this one, in order to correctly id it.

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BFunderburk

Nice work, Paco! Surely not the same species, but noting the pinkish, hard, calcified pieces as we find here. I hope others will see, will post photos of crab/crustacean parts and will help identify. Difficulty in finding exoskeleton in proximity with "legs" and pincers; a great find would be those connected in a specimen. Good luck and thanks!

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dirtdauber

I hesitate to bring up an old topic, but I've collected and just recently prepared a couple of large crab (lobster) claws that may be relevant to this much discussed topic. First collected these claws in 2011 and posted pics (Cretaceous Crescent Wrenches, Sept. 18, 2011) at that time. I showed these unprepared specimens to George Phillips, curator of the Mississippi Museum of Natural Science, this spring and he thinks they belong to an undescribed, large shell-crushing crab. George had not seen any complete claws before and noted that the bits and pieces of claw frequently found in Texas and Mississippi probably belong to this crab. The specimens pictured in the original post of this topic and others from Texas really resemble the cutting/crushing surface of the chela of my specimens. The conversation with George inspired me to prepare the claws and I finished the most complete one yesterday. I've sent photos of the prepared claws to George and he was to forward the photos to colleagues for their input. Hadn't heard back yet.

Anyway, the specimens were collected from the Ripley Fm., Selma Group, Upper Cretaceous (Early Maastrichtian/Late Campanian) in south-central Alabama. what do you think?

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Auspex

Are they compressed, or is what we see likely true to life form?

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dirtdauber

Are they compressed, or is what we see likely true to life form?

I don't think they're compressed much at all. The ends of the chela are very thin, but I think that was mostly poor preservation and my poor prep skills. Very difficult specimens to prepare since there was virtually no separation of matrix from fossil, thus no 'pop-off' of matrix.

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Auspex

Sounds like the preservation on those Avit "muffin crabs". Hard to do anything with...

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BFunderburk

Dirtdauber, these are really amazing. Alabama? The only part that hints of the Prairie Bluff/Ripley "crustacean chelae" (G. Phillips) parts that I've posted are the last pix- pinkish, calcareous pieces that echo, in their rhythmic segmentation, the nonpincher chelae parts of "my" unknown MS/AL specimens. THANK YOU- please let me know what George Phillips says!

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BFunderburk

Frustration-city. After 91 conversations (some with myself), no one seems to know what species these crab chelae belong to- even as these are fairly common in this Cretaceous Black (belt) Prairie area (Prairie Bluff/Ripley/Selma Chalk formations) of east MS. Most fascinating is that the end pieces (often called claws or pinchers/pincers) are not actually pincher/claw-like, but are complete, solid forms, never (yet) found in pincher-like pairs. No center parts/carapace or body has been found, only "chelae". The most similar specimens (also unidentified) have turned up in the Black (belt) Prairie, just east of here, in Alabama, and in Tarrant County Cretaceous formations in Texas. HAVE WE GOT A NEW SPECIES? Please, good colleagues, let's continue to ask, seek, knock.... until the door opens! Sincerely crabby, BFunderburk

Edited by BFunderburk

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BFunderburk

Help! Lots of great conversation, BUT, no ID on these amazing crustacean "chelae" from east MS- Prairie Bluff formation (Cretaceous/Blackbelt Prairie). What the heck is this? post-7693-0-24234100-1449368588.jpgpost-7693-0-55000500-1449368588.jpgpost-7693-0-83039900-1449368588.jpgpost-7693-0-33067500-1449368589.jpgpost-7693-0-83120400-1449368589.jpg

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Edited by BFunderburk

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Coco

Hey BFunderburk, don't write with big letters (or in capital letters) because on the forums that means that you shout ! OK ?

Two years ago, two different people recommended you to contact George Phillips ! Did you contact him it and what is the result ?

Coco

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Uncle Siphuncle

I've found similar in the Masstrichtian of South Texas. George Phillips confirmed that they were indeed crustacean claw fragments, but we didn't narrow them down to a genus. Have you shown them to Gale Bishop or Alex Osso?

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BFunderburk

Thank you, Coco, and Uncle Siphuncle.I appreciate your help.

Sorry about font size; did not wish to yelp!

Yes, I have been in touch with the wonderful George Phillips in Jackson, MS, often. A tremendous help. Specimens have been given to the MS Natural Sciences Museum for further study and research (and have been sent to other paleontologists/institutions), but, as yet, there has been no positive genus ID on these curious fellows from any quarter.

My hope is to keep this conversation alive regarding our Cretaceous mystery crustacean. Alas, you have awakened it. Cheers and happy holidays!

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BFunderburk

PS, Uncle S., how might I find Gail Bishop and/or Alex Osso?

PSS- I have a fossil hunting son in Austin. We recently had a most successful ammonite adventure near Georgetown... and found nice specimens (including a paleo-scraper) near Lake Taylor.

Thanks for your help and interest!

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Herb

I have collected the Ripley/Coon Creek at 2 localities in MS and TN. These photos look like a combination of pelecypod , gastropod parts and crustacean parts. Dakotacancer is by far the most common one there but there are also lobsters. Also Innoceramas is not the only big pelecypod there , Trigonia leaves big pieces of hinge also. Many of the pieces look like gastropod pieces. Most of my crustacean pieces are dark (claws) a few are white though. My 2 cents worth. These are common in the formation, and are usually broken.

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Plax

not saying these are pagurid claws but pagurids have very sturdy claws that fossilize readily and basically no body fossils. Have seen modern pagurids (hermit crabs) in this size range. The outer ornamentation may not be preserved on the claws. Have been trying to search Enocploclytia sp? which has really big claws but must have the spelling wrong.

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