ssuntok Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I found this today on Vancouver Island, BC in a roadcut near Lake Cowichan. It's cretaceous in age, and I believe it may be a button coral, but I've never seen one before. Can anyone help with the ID? Steve Suntok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi ssuntok, This looks the same as the items I posted here: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php/topic/9531-show-us-your-coral/page__st__40 which understandably I too had thought to be a button coral (Platycyathus sp.), but since then, one of the 'experts' I know has said he thinks they are a type of spine from an unidentified cidaroid echinoid. Looks to me like they are quite widespread in the Haslam Fm, at least in the Cow. Valley, but said expert has noted that my 8 or 10 specimens that I have shown him outnumber all the others that VicPS members have found! If these are in fact spines, then the only examples of Platycyathus I have found are negative impressions (cavities) from a spot near Ladysmith that is now played out and the new site of the Cow. Exhibition grounds... and others have found them from places further north. Some of my specimens (and others) will be on display at Swan Lake nature house in Vic. starting the weekend of the VicPS Fossil Fair which I believe to be on the 24th/25th weekend (I'll have to double check that). Maybe I'll see you there. Eric PS just for anyone reading, these are about Upper Santonian in age, Haslam Formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It would be nice to see a cross section cut from one or two of those. They certainly look coral to me, especially the bottom one Eric posted in the other thread. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 That's what I always thought, and I have a couple that are broken thru (they are with the expert on the way to being displayed) and they look very coral-like - the other side is divided into septa like a solitary coral and the cross-section shows this, but Mr Expert seems quite convinced they are a type of cidaroid spine, and he knows more than I do about the local fauna. (On the other hand he failed to recognize my Hormathospongia when I showed it to him, though I'll admit the specimens weren't high quality and that was before I had the paper to go with them). Maybe we should show these to Coco, I'm not sure she has seen this or the other post yet, but she is the echinoid expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi Wrangellian, you make me too much honor! I know sea urchins, but I am not sure to be a specialist ! I have seen your fossils on the post you told (#54) and Ssuntok's ones, but I don't think they are sea urchin spines. Indeed, spines has necessarily a narrow part which comes to fit on the tubercle. I can't help you more. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 We have a tiny button coral, Micrabacia, in our local (North Carolina) Campanian and Maastrichtian. Looks quite a bit like this one but smaller. Would guess that yours is a related genus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi Wrangellian, you make me too much honor! I know sea urchins, but I am not sure to be a specialist ! I have seen your fossils on the post you told (#54) and Ssuntok's ones, but I don't think they are sea urchin spines. Indeed, spines has necessarily a narrow part which comes to fit on the tubercle. I can't help you more. Coco You might not have a degree but you probably know more about echinoids than most/all of the Forum members! (more than I do, in any case) I had the same doubts about this as you do; I have not seen evidence of the attachment point on any of my specimens, but the expert I mentioned seemed to indicate he has seen these.. I think I will send you a scan of the article in from the BCPA which announces a similar item from another, slightly younger location here on Vancouver Island, written by said expert. (I say 'expert', but he is not necessarily an echinoid expert, but generally quite knowledgeable about local fossils) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi, I have seen the publication. I have Psychocidaris ohshimai in my collection. I will do pics of this species to show you the attachment point of the 2 sorts of spines. Are your fossils in calcite ? If yes, the break of a spine follows necessarily the plan of split (cleavage) of the calcite, which always has the same angle on a spine. I am also going to try to find a broken spine to show the break. I just need a little of time to make these photos. Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssuntok Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 We have a tiny button coral, Micrabacia, in our local (North Carolina) Campanian and Maastrichtian. Looks quite a bit like this one but smaller. Would guess that yours is a related genus? Plax, Do you have pics of your local one? Steve Suntok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ssuntok, have a look here on post #72 about sea urchin spines : http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php/topic/9531-show-us-your-coral/page__st__60 Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Here's some flat bed scans of our local one from the Maastrichtian Peedee (largest 5mm). Couldn't get good macro profile shot from my camera so scanned a page from Lloyd William Stephenson 1916, North American Upper Cretaceous Corals of the Genus Micrabacia, USGS Professional Paper 98-J. Not saying what you have is necessarily Micrabacia but your pics have the overall look of this coral. the devil's in the details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssuntok Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Eric/Plax, Thanks guys. Your post in the corals thread is the same as mine Eric: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php/topic/9531-show-us-your-coral/page__st__60 (post #80). I see no evidence on our specimens of any attachment points on the bottoms as would occur on the echinoid spines. I think we're looking at Platycyathus as you suggested originally. The general similarity to Plax's Micrabracia plate is compelling too Steve Suntok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yes, I think this nails it as a coral, I'm looking in particular at certain features in that scan, for example the ridges on the side of #8 are very similar to some of my specimens. (Thanks Plax) I'd say Case Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssuntok Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 yup, ridges on the side seal it for me. case closed i think. thanks for the help with the ID, both of you cheers steve Steve Suntok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Well I just got back from the Fossil Fair where I saw Ray's examples (only two) and while I couldn't see them very well in the poorly lit case they did seem to have a similar look to the round/domelike spines in the diagram in the article I sent you two, so they could be spines. Your example is still ambiguous to me, Steve, as it is more domelike than most of mine and seems to have concentric ridges on it as in the diagram, though not as prominent. So while I'm sure mine are all corals, I am still unsure of yours - would like to see more photos or see it in person.. if it has an attachment point/stem it might be on the other side which I can't see so well, and from what I can see there aren't prominent septa as there are on my corals. What can you see? I will have to show you my examples in person to see if there is any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Think I'll sit this one out. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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