Fossils4U Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Thank you I agree with you. They are different! If I have to sacrifice one for science I will. I just need to find another one to replace the one i destroy. I am curious now to see both valves. If you need more pictures just let me know? It's not G. vomer. But sorry I don't have a link or a good picture of the few G. vomers I have in my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Thank you for everything... ah well, sorry for a useless link.The threads been interesting to me both for the fine photography, stunning specimens F4U, and cause I'm looking at three or four beautiful examples Fossil Foilist has just sent from NC that I can't wait to shoot and post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 I will look into it. THANK YOU! How about a Spondylus lamellacea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 This oyster has been looked at for a couple of decades but haven't really heard any conclusions, most experts call it Flemingostrea subspatulata. Apparently the oyster starts out flat and spiny and matures into the deep dish typical Flemingostrea we know. I've seen intermediates at Castle Hayne and in Pender county. Have also heard what we call Flemingostrea subspatulata as Rhynchostreon. It certainly looks like a crassostrea at the flat spiny stage of life. Oysters are oddly variable critters. All the Gryphostrea vomer I have are smooth. Have Pycnodonte with "side arms?". this isn't either of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xonenine Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 This oyster has been looked at for a couple of decades but haven't really heard any conclusions, most experts call it Flemingostrea subspatulata. Apparently the oyster starts out flat and spiny and matures into the deep dish typical Flemingostrea we know. I've seen intermediates at Castle Hayne and in Pender county. Have also heard what we call Flemingostrea subspatulata as Rhynchostreon. It certainly looks like a crassostrea at the flat spiny stage of life. Oysters are oddly variable critters. All the Gryphostrea vomer I have are smooth. Have Pycnodonte with "side arms?". this isn't either of these. tantalizing, now I really want to read more, is there any reference material you can offer a link to? "Your serpent of Egypt is bred now of your mud by the operation of your sun; so is your crocodile." Lepidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middletown Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 This is a link to a forum,interesting, plenty of pictures, questions and answers. It is all about shells. http://z14.invisionfree.com/Conchologist_Forum/index.php?showforum=32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Here are the references in which the original descriptions can be found. Maybe some of you east Coast folks with access to the big libraries can look 'em up. All I know is that amongst the half dozen reference books I own neither of these are shown to look like Fossils4U's specimens. My library includes both new and old books and papers for what that matters. Gryphaeostrea vomer (Morton, 1828) [original genus Gryphaea] Morton, S.G., 1828. American Journal of Science, First Series v. 6, p. 81, pl. 4, fig. 3. Flemingostrea subspatulata (Forbes, 1845) [original genus Ostrea] Forbes, E. 1845. Quarterly Journal of Geological Science, London., v. 1, p. 61-62 and figs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hi Plax. It is a odd one... Every one that I have ever found or seen of this paticular oyster has always had the arms. I have not seen any in a transitional development stage to make me think that it is a Flemingostrea subspatulata at all and none are over 4 1/2" long. .. This oyster has been looked at for a couple of decades but haven't really heard any conclusions, most experts call it Flemingostrea subspatulata. Apparently the oyster starts out flat and spiny and matures into the deep dish typical Flemingostrea we know. I've seen intermediates at Castle Hayne and in Pender county. Have also heard what we call Flemingostrea subspatulata as Rhynchostreon. It certainly looks like a crassostrea at the flat spiny stage of life. Oysters are oddly variable critters. All the Gryphostrea vomer I have are smooth. Have Pycnodonte with "side arms?". this isn't either of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thank you! This is a link to a forum,interesting, plenty of pictures, questions and answers. It is all about shells. http://z14.invisionf...hp?showforum=32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Thank you Erose.. I really appreciate your research into the identification of this species.... I call it the long arm oyster. It is a SCARCE FIND..... Here are the references in which the original descriptions can be found. Maybe some of you east Coast folks with access to the big libraries can look 'em up. All I know is that amongst the half dozen reference books I own neither of these are shown to look like Fossils4U's specimens. My library includes both new and old books and papers for what that matters. Gryphaeostrea vomer (Morton, 1828) [original genus Gryphaea] Morton, S.G., 1828. American Journal of Science, First Series v. 6, p. 81, pl. 4, fig. 3. Flemingostrea subspatulata (Forbes, 1845) [original genus Ostrea] Forbes, E. 1845. Quarterly Journal of Geological Science, London., v. 1, p. 61-62 and figs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Hey fossils4u, Flemingostrea subspatulata was described from a trib to the NE Cape Fear quite close by here in Pender county, NC. Stephenson, 1923 describes the cretaceous fossils of NC and has good pics of the species. It's long out of print. Natural exposures don't have the good preservation that quarries seem to have for this oyster. Have seen hints of the spination in natural exposures though. This could very well be named something else in the future. Am just giving the answer(s) that I've received from paleontologists. Have been showing this oyster around since the'80s. One or two of them thought that a description/explanation should be made but know of no such publication. I made an inquiry to this forum some time ago about cretaceous crassostrea from the Peedee reported in USGS pubs from along the Cape Fear. It was perhaps the only inquiry never to receive a reply! Oysters just aren't interesting to most folks. Am glad you're stirring this up and hope you can get someone to do something professionally about this question. Also, am not sure what the arms are you describe. There are both spiny and smooth forms of your flattish crassostrea-esk oyster in the Rocky Point member. The spiny version just being better preserved. MM Castle hayne and Rocky Point usually have good piles of this sediment along the drainage ditches and occasionally dumped elsewhere. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xonenine Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) here's a MD Geological Survey book with vomer and quite a few other species... Upper Cretaceous ..., Volume 6, Part 1 By Maryland Geological Survey, William Bullock Clark, Marcus Isaac Goldman, Edward Wilber Berry, Julia Anna Gardner, Henry Augustus Pilsbry, Ray Smith Bassler, Lloyd William Stephenson (pg.579) Edited April 4, 2012 by xonenine "Your serpent of Egypt is bred now of your mud by the operation of your sun; so is your crocodile." Lepidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank you Plax... I love all forms of fossils and expecialy these oysters... This is one that is attached under the lip of a Flemingostrea subspatulata.. Hey fossils4u, Flemingostrea subspatulata was described from a trib to the NE Cape Fear quite close by here in Pender county, NC. Stephenson, 1923 describes the cretaceous fossils of NC and has good pics of the species. It's long out of print. Natural exposures don't have the good preservation that quarries seem to have for this oyster. Have seen hints of the spination in natural exposures though. This could very well be named something else in the future. Am just giving the answer(s) that I've received from paleontologists. Have been showing this oyster around since the'80s. One or two of them thought that a description/explanation should be made but know of no such publication. I made an inquiry to this forum some time ago about cretaceous crassostrea from the Peedee reported in USGS pubs from along the Cape Fear. It was perhaps the only inquiry never to receive a reply! Oysters just aren't interesting to most folks. Am glad you're stirring this up and hope you can get someone to do something professionally about this question. Also, am not sure what the arms are you describe. There are both spiny and smooth forms of your flattish crassostrea-esk oyster in the Rocky Point member. The spiny version just being better preserved. MM Castle hayne and Rocky Point usually have good piles of this sediment along the drainage ditches and occasionally dumped elsewhere. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank you but i can not get the pages to load.. Can you copy and paste the page please? THANK YOU. here's a MD Geological Survey book with vomer and quite a few other species... Upper Cretaceous ..., Volume 6, Part 1 By Maryland Geological Survey, William Bullock Clark, Marcus Isaac Goldman, Edward Wilber Berry, Julia Anna Gardner, Henry Augustus Pilsbry, Ray Smith Bassler, Lloyd William Stephenson (pg.579) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xonenine Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) no problem... Img 1 img2 Edited April 5, 2012 by xonenine "Your serpent of Egypt is bred now of your mud by the operation of your sun; so is your crocodile." Lepidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Foilist Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 These are from the Rocky Point area. late cretaceous Fossil Foilist -----)---------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wow very nice finds.................. I bet your heart almost stoped when you found that one!! Or it beat out of your chest! Ha UNBELIEVABLY, EXTREMELY, SCARCE FIND!!! :greenwnvy: These are from the Rocky Point area. late cretaceous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 NOT IT.... I have quite a few of these. Thank you though! no problem... Img 1 img2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 The spines probably Either helped anchor the shell in the substrate or kept carniverous critters off. Or both. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 It is hard to tell! Maybe the arms were used to catch the curents and move to feed in diferent areas of the ocean! It all sounds good. Need to find a few more of them for study. :)I have kind of ruled out the anchor theory because the arms are always on the top of the shell only. Maybe for reproductive purposes? The spines probably Either helped anchor the shell in the substrate or kept carniverous critters off. Or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Think about it the more arms you have the more eggs you catch!! ???? Just a idea to neander on. It is hard to tell! Maybe the arms were used to catch the curents and move to feed in diferent areas of the ocean! It all sounds good. Need to find a few more of them for study. :)I have kind of ruled out the anchor theory because the arms are always on the top of the shell only. Maybe for reproductive purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Raise the top of the shell in a good curent and just move on!?? Think about it the more arms you have the more eggs you catch!! ???? Just a idea to neander on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Think about it the more arms you have the more eggs you catch!! ???? Just a idea to neander on. Well, catching eggs in the current is not how oysters reproduce, and encouraging new oysters to attach to themselves is not a beneficial strategy for survival... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 It was just some ideas. Maybe they were a invasive species! Almost all forms of coral reproduce by throwing a massive amount of eggs to the mercy of the curents. Maybe this oyster did the same thing? I was just giving a idea to use your imagination on! This is a Extinct species we are talking about. What made them go extinct? Was it because the Flemingostrea subspatulata went extinct that this species died out?? What was there bond? Most of my finds of almost all of this species they are attached under a fan lip of a Flemingostrea subspatulata. I know it is not a beneficial strategy for suvival. But sometimes in nature other organisms get used for other means and for survival.. If you look at the fossil closely the arms have rounded tips thus I belive this fossil oyster was trying to display, atract, or capture. Think in a world with all of the monsters ((Flemingostrea subspatulata)) eating up all the food in a area as a smaller filter feeder i would want to be at the best posible spot! Thus the thought of attachement came up a long time ago for me. I have not found any evidence or seen any yet to back that up. The arms are only on the top of this species for some reason. . I will figure it out eventually! Not many species capture my imagination as much as this one for some reason! I LOVE THEM.. Were they the killer or the helper? Well, catching eggs in the current is not how oysters reproduce, and encouraging new oysters to attach to themselves is not a beneficial strategy for survival... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils4U Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 These are some more pictures of the inside of the oyster for reference. This is a cluster of three of them. Clearly visable this species does not have the arms on the back to anchor down with. I put some close up pictures of the muscle for reference as well. Or where the muscle/tendon was. It was very strong. Picture #7 and #5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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