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Im Looking For An Opinion About gender


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AMMONITE gender THAT IS - Could this nodule of Eleganticeras elegans ammonites be a male (microconch) and female (macroconch)? The larger ammonite (that I think is a female) is 3" and the smaller "male" ammonite is 1.5". I thought this was a real neat nodule when I got it and it would mean a lot more to me if my hunch is right. It’s Jurassic from England of course and if you know your British Ammonites, I would appreciate your feedback.

mikey

post-7129-0-37713300-1333333315_thumb.jpg

Edited by mikeymig
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Hey I didn't write gender I wrote ..., great there goes my warn status.

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Fossildude19

Can't believe none of our British friends are chiming in on this one.

Maybe they haven't seen it? Bump!

Unfortunately, I'm no good with ammonites.

Regards,

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One dimorphic distinction can sometimes be weaker ornamentation on the later whorls of the macroconch than on it's (her) earlier whorls. Is that what I'm seeing in the photo? It's hard to tell for sure. Outside of possible lappets for some microconchs, rostrums for some macroconchs, and longer body chambers for the girls (2/3 whorl compared to 1/2 for the guys) it's pretty hard to tell so unless you know how complete yours are and how these features shake out on E. elegans you may never know.

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DeloiVarden

I didn't know there were male and femal...

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I didn't know there were male and femal...

Um, that's one of the reasons they didn't go extinct right away... :P

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I didn't know there were male and femal...

Of course for ammonites it can only be conjecture based on comparisons with living cephalopods which are either male or female unlike many other molluscs which are hermaphrodite. Some believe ammos are more like coleoids than nautiloids which have larger males. I think this based on the number of arms and the presence of an arm modified for sperm deposit in coleoids.

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I collect modern seashells and with some like the Strombids, there is a clear diff between male and female with the females being bigger. It’s my understanding that the females have to be bigger to "house" all the extra reproductive gear males lack and some female mollusks store the sperm for weeks until they are ready to lay their eggs. You can see sexual dimorphism in some ammonites like Scaphites and I think this is an example of it in this specimen but I’m not an expert and my opinion is bias cuz I love this nodule. Your right Tim, I didnt think it would take this long for an answer and I know there are UK collectors on FF. I have more photos and can take more if that helps!

mikey

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Wow! Gender issues aside, this is a beautiful piece! Amazing prep! :) Thanks for sharing!

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Can't help I'm afraid, but even the females start life small.

Though I don't really collect ammo's, I'd like to know exactly how one determines whether a small ammo' is m/f. Also, what are the max sizes for males, in any given sp?

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Xiphactinus

Can you tell if one is always right? If so, that's the female.

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