Collecting Via Water--Kayak, Canoe, Jon Boat?

[mikecable]

Gary and I are wanting to step up our adventures. So we are considering going "Water World." Not diving, not white water. Just some slow and easy floats--the Brazos, the Colorado, Pecan Bayou, a few of our very low lakes.

Neither one of us is particularly comfortable in deep water. We both swim, but barely. We would be wearing PFDs when needed. We would like one or two craft that would at least offer the possibility of carrying enough gear for fair-weather overnight camping. We've both canoed before, but not extensively.

I'm looking seriously at this boat.

http://www.walmart.c...-Kayak/10910811

Cheap is good. Reviews are good. Capacity is good. Stability is good. Weight for getting in, out or portaging is good. The few bad reviews talked about how she was slow, wouldn't stay on track, didn't compare to more traditional kayaks that were much more expensive. But I don't want a boat that will speed me down the river. I want a boat that will get me to some fossiliferous rock.

Comments?

[Ramo]

I've never been in onw of those walmart kayaks, but I do own 3 kayaks, and 2 canoes at the present time. (Proud owner of a used canoe/kayak trailer ) I have spent a lot of time in various self propelled watercraft, and my favorite means of getting around water is a "sit in" kayak. A mid sized kayak like the "sit in" one on that walmart page, is usually very easy to use, and very stable. I picked up one for my girl at ALco last year for under $200 that I love. I used it to retrieve some ducks my brother and I shot off a pond in a snowstorm with 30 mph winds, and the pond half frozen. If it wasn't nearly impossible to tip over, I wouldn't have done it. They are also light if you have to pull it up a muddy riverbank, or carry it very far. A canoe can't be beat for hauling gear and fossils though if you need to move a lot of cargo. I don't particularry care for the "sit on" type kayaks, not nearly as stable as a sit in, and they seem to catch more wind.

Just my two cents on the subject. I'll bet there are others on here who have more experience than me. Hopefully they will chime in.

Ramo

[Cris]

I vote for sit in kayaks...I used a two person sit in kayak with my brother in law for fossil collecting all the time... Nearly impossible to tip them over (at least the one we used) and you can really cover a lot of area fast (even upstream)...Best of all, you only have to worry about dragging them in the shallowest waters. This two person "Old Town" kayak can keep floating and moving in 3 inches of water.

You'd get sick of dragging a jon boat around very quickly, IMHO...and they're going to be much harder to steer without a motor...and with a motor, you really have to worry about the depth.

Canoes tip a little easier than kayaks but provide a lot more room for moving around and placing gear in....after a few hours in a kayak, your legs will start to fall asleep from not being able to move around a lot....of course that wouldn't be an issue if you were constantly getting out to look for things.

[mikecable]

I've never been in onw of those walmart kayaks, but I do own 3 kayaks, and 2 canoes at the present time. (Proud owner of a used canoe/kayak trailer ) I have spent a lot of time in various self propelled watercraft, and my favorite means of getting around water is a "sit in" kayak. A mid sized kayak like the "sit in" one on that walmart page, is usually very easy to use, and very stable. I picked up one for my girl at ALco last year for under $200 that I love. I used it to retrieve some ducks my brother and I shot off a pond in a snowstorm with 30 mph winds, and the pond half frozen. If it wasn't nearly impossible to tip over, I wouldn't have done it. They are also light if you have to pull it up a muddy riverbank, or carry it very far. A canoe can't be beat for hauling gear and fossils though if you need to move a lot of cargo. I don't particularry care for the "sit on" type kayaks, not nearly as stable as a sit in, and they seem to catch more wind.

Just my two cents on the subject. I'll bet there are others on here who have more experience than me. Hopefully they will chime in.

Ramo

Exactly the sort of advice I'm looking for. We would seldom if ever be on open water. Streams or rivers where a headwind might present a problem. To fine tune my requirements--cheap (less than $400), slow and stable, able to transport about 75 pounds plus more than my 175 pound fat butt.

[hokiehunter]

My vote is a SOT kayak 100% nothing else will do if you are looking at using it in a river or water that is even remotely rough. Why? You cannot sink a SOT unless you are trying. A small wave or wrong body weight shift can dunk a sit in for a novice. I personally use a perception 12' angler kayak and can tell you without a doubt that it it faster and smoother than most sit-in kayaks I've been up against or tested. On a 2 mile paddle I've left the launch against similar size guys in sit in kayaks and smoked them by 1/2 a mile without trying. I ride higher and paddle smoother and can take a chop up to 3+ feet. Bigger is usually better as far as speed, stability, and comfort.

The yak you have picture I wouldn't want to try and paddle more than 1/2 a mile in any kind of resistance unless it was down stream the whole time. It would be good as a flotation device but for spending large amounts of time and getting to where you want fast (you want to be fossiling not paddling right) you need to go bigger. I'd say go on craigslist and buy used. I bought my perception that way and spent $400 total including a really nice paddle (there is a HUGE difference in paddles). You should be able to find a good SOT kayak in the 11.5 to 12' range for 300 to 400 used.

Just my 2 cents.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

I own a canoe, kayak, jon boat and use them all for different waterways. I've also been in and out of many power boats over the years (including one we capsized in the Gulf and remained shipwrecked for a day, but that's another story!)...I've used them in fossiling in the past, and on the flip side have waded with an inflatable raft behind me which ended up loaded down with ammonites and tools, sparing my back.

In short, there is no silver bullet for every application, and every floatable is compromise of weight, cost, stability, handling, and other factors. Choice of boat and how its outfitted is as personal a decision as "which gun is best for deer hunting". You might consider renting different canoes kayaks for different outings and choosing the best for your preferences and abilities. If you ever plan to go alone, weight is more of a consideration.

Motors have appeal on the surface, but consider the following....broken shear pins, broken props, engine problems, mechanical problems getting you stuck way farther from port than a paddle. Plus there is the weight of the engine and gas can, Coast Guard required equipment, expense of registration, etc. Most gas engines light enough to carry back up the bank don't have the horsepower to move a couple 200 LB guys back upstream against a strong current (which can sneak up on you at times). I'd advise the engine thing be left to the guys comfortable with engine repair, and with the foresight to bring necessary tools and parts in the possibles bag. I've had to take the head off my engine on the water to get it running in the past (don't drop any screws or tools in the water!)

Back to human powered floatables...plastic boats are least expensive, low coefficient of friction on rocks, generally not the choice of experienced canoeists but common in yaks. Aluminum: heavier, more expensive, tough. Kevlar: light, somewhat fragile, expensive. I'll let more experienced canoeists comment on handling if they like. My yak is a 2 man Ocean Kayak sit on top and I like it. With all my boats, I continually develop and fabricate customized, purpose built equipment to streamline my "system".

One more suggestion...consider renting a ski boat with a couple buddies sometime at a lake of choice....many good times and fossils to be had that way.

[RickNC]

Had this same debate earlier this year. I decided on a canoe so that I can carry my gear which includes screen, shovels, etc. I got an Old Town guide 119.

[mikecable]

How about inflatables?

[Uncle Siphuncle]

personally i like durability in the field. some areas are chock full o broken glass.

another consideration is your other hobbies and potential uses for your chosen floatable. for my purposes, i like something that adapts easily to fishing.

in the end, choose what works for you. in many ways my setups defy mainstream conventions, but that doesnt concern me just so my equipment suits my family and me.

[Roz]

I bought a 4 person inflatable boat and only had one trip in it so far.. The trip

was a disaster but it had nothing to do with the boat..

The biggest thing I noticed is there is no possible way 4 people would fit in it..

In reality, it's a 2 person boat.. On the plus side, it is easy to pump it up

and easy to get it around.. Oars and pump of course were separate .. I bought

the oars that fold up into themselves and they are very light weight..

Also the price was great, I think it was under 50.00 (boat)

[JohnJ]

Mike, based on your experience and requirements, I think the yak in your first post would be a good fit for you. Yes, it will be slow, but it will be maneuverable enough to keep you out of most trouble. Not being able to sink it would be another advantage for you in worst case scenarios. With a little creative packing, you should be able to use it for an overnight trip. It will be durable and it is light enough to not wear you out. Looks like you've covered your bases. Thirty plus years paddling has taught me that you should feel comfortable with your boat. You depend on it for your safety and enjoyment.

[gwbh]

I agree with hokiehunter on this one, he nailed it.

[mikecable]

Mike, based on your experience and requirements, I think the yak in your first post would be a good fit for you. Yes, it will be slow, but it will be maneuverable enough to keep you out of most trouble. Not being able to sink it would be another advantage for you in worst case scenarios. With a little creative packing, you should be able to use it for an overnight trip. It will be durable and it is light enough to not wear you out. Looks like you've covered your bases. Thirty plus years paddling has taught me that you should feel comfortable with your boat. You depend on it for your safety and enjoyment.

"Not being able to sink It"--didn't they say something like that about the Titanic?

[Auspex]

Not too many icebergs in Texas rivers...

<humming "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald">

[mikecable]

Do the foam canoe carrying blocks sufficiently protect the finish on the car? A Thule rack system runs $500 for my 2011 Ford Fiesta, and a canoe trailer and hitch is even more.

[Jesse]

I personally have used a 16x48 jon boat powered by a 25hp mud motor for the shallows, with up to 6 people and gear. There are some spots along the snake river here that are only accessible from a boat, as well as some of the reservoirs. This is my duck boat so it gets dual purposed from time to time.

Depending on the size of the people involved here, you could probably get away with a 12x36 jon and have room for gear and fossils. A boat this size can easily be carried or drug by 2 people. I have duck hunted 3 adults and a kid out of a boat this size in the past.

*disclaimer, it is never advisable to carry more than the manufacturers max weight capacity!

[Blastoid]

I have an 18" wide sit in kayak, and a pontoon boat. Both are nearly impossible to tip, and I am not a small guy. Former about 60 lbs, latter maybe half, neither would I want to have to portage more than a few hundred yards, that is seriously hard work.

I don't believe there's anything better for your purpose than a second hand or factory second canoe. It's the original platform for hauling big loads across water... eg. the fur trading days. Main factor in my mind is that it's a pain getting out of a sit in yak, you really need either a low dock or a sandy beach, or somebody to pull you in. If you're dealing with steep banks or mud, it's going to be tough. Also, carrying capacity... not so good in a yak. Also, don't need a trailer, just two straps and a roof rack. or some foam noodles. Strongly advise trying different options out before sinking the money... I love my pontoon boat but the snarge thing is so slow I can't keep up to friends in yaks, rowing my arms off, but it is a nifty toy and laughs at white water.

B

[DeloiVarden]

Sit on top!!! My Trigger Ocean Kayak has always served me well. Infact, it held me and my brother one day when he tried to sink his kayak. A sit on top is also very handy when you are working along banks which are not an easy in and out as is the case here in the lowcountry. Keep in mind though, the bigger it is, the more ackward to load and unload on your vehicle depending on the vehicle. I have a nice rack which helps, but I dropped the kayak on my last car and took off the side mirror. Nothing a little fiberglass work couldn't fix

[Sharks of SC]

I have to disagree with the SOT folks. I've had a wilderness systems two person sit-in type (maybe 12'?) that's my family has had and used regularly for 12 years. We removed the front seat and use it for one person (it was one long, open cockpit with two seats) and load the front down with gear. This set up is great because you can pack everything you need, have a low center of gravity but plenty of distance between the waterline and cockpit, and still ride with the bow high enough in the water to handle heavy chop. I've taken this boat out in 1-2' chop comfortably with 30+ lbs of gear. The best advantage of a big sit-in is a dry, spacious cockpit and storage. And thought the boat may be a little clunky and heavy on land, it handles incredibly well in the water - it is wide, stable, streamlined (hydrodynamic), and tracks perfectly.

[RickNC]

I got my canoe out for the first time yesterday. I flipped it getting in. Then I flipped it again soon as I took off paddling. I was surprised at that. I've never used one like this before. But third time was a charm. I didn't have anymore issues, but it was a chore getting in and out and only seemed like it would work in very shallow water.

[Tarheel59]

I have not used a canoe in so long that when I did they were still birch bark.

When I learned we usually had the thing on edge of water with tail on land and had to push off with paddle or if 2 people were going in on it then person was in front sitting and 2nd pushed off and jumped in. Of course we were kids and a lot lighter back then... I guess it depends on the area you are going in at too. Not that we never flipped it or anything.

Rick I guess it like riding a bike once you get it down you will have no problems unless you get caught in a rapid somewhere.. I have a jon boat but looking at getting a canoe or yak sometime in near future... Jeff

[DeloiVarden]

I took a closer look at the particular kayak in your link and it does look like it would be slow. I know you don't want to go real fast, but if folks say it is slow, they mean it is going to take a lot more effort to get from point A to point B. I have taken buddies out before and literally run circles around them and it wasn't because I was better skilled or stronger, but rather because the kayak he was using didn't track well. He was rowing three times as hard as I was, but just wasn't able to push the kayak through the water. When a kayak tracks well, your kayak will continue to move far after each stroke. If it doesn't track well, it will slow or even stop between strokes. So you have to get it going again never really gaining any momentum. My kayak is huge, but tracks well and once I get to speed I can maintain it with minimal effort. Jsut something to think about since getting to that good spot can mean covering some distance sometimes! The biggest reason I recommend a sit on top vs a sit in is that you mentioned neither you nor you buddy were great swimmers. If you flip a sit in in open water, you might have a tough time getting back in and even if you do, it won't track good at all with 200lbs of water in it. Yep, you will get a little wetter in a sit on top, but hey, keeps you cool right and any water you take in will automatically go out the scooper holes. Before you buy a new kayak for $200, I would check your local classifieds or craigslist for used kayaks. You may be able to nab a $600 kayak for $200!

[Auspex]

17' Grumman here. 80 pounds, 800 pound capacity. It will get me there and back, and has never failed to do anything I asked of it.

[ECpirates96]

Just bought a sit on top Jackson Cuda yesterday. I am looking forward to a few Tar river fishing/collecting trips this summer.

[Liz McClain]

Hey, y'all; I know I'm reviving an old thread, but I had to put this out there. We used a 17' Grumman canoe for fishing and then later when we started fossil hunting on, specifically, the Peace River in Florida. We spent a lot of time getting unstuck from rocks and sandbars when the river was really low, but that was fine until the day I flipped it trying to get in while standing in 2-1/2 feet of water in the Peace and all our fossils we'd collected went down the river never to be seen again, including two very nice small mammal partial jawbones with teeth. A short time later my husband found a used River Hawk on a trailer and bought it. It is perfect for fossil hunting. For those of you who don't know, a River Hawk is similar to a ganoe/gheenoe; it's wider and more stable than a canoe -- you can easily stand up in it on water and not flip, and my husband often stands in the stern and steers with an extender bar on the motor -- and, since it has a square stern, you can attach a motor. We have a small outboard we use for deeper water, but when we're on the Peace in collecting areas we use a trolling motor. Sometimes we have both motors on the boat, but usually we just leave the outboard in the campground when we see the water is very shallow. It is easy to carry a battery for the trolling motor, and we have a small solar panel that we connect while out to trickle charge the battery during the day while we're digging for fossils. There is plenty of room for everything you need for fossil hunting. We take a cooler, sieves, shovels, buckets, seat cushions, life vests, paddles, fishing rods, anchor, and still have room left over for two dogs. Oh, and with the aid of a couple of brackets we attached we have a beach umbrella we put up to offer the dogs some shade during the day. To me the River Hawk is the perfect fossiling boat. We like it so much we just bought a second used one, a smaller one, that we'll be able to put on the truck for travel; that way we can leave the trailered boat at home when we travel with our popup camper.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Liz McClain