How to prepare a fish fossil from the Green River Formation

[Dapalis1]

Hi guys,

I have been given a slab from the Green River formation with a 3 inches Knightia Eocaena in it. The problem is that i never prepared a fossil by myself. I have also been given a kind of sharp tool to scratch it out.

My question is about the way to bring the fossil to light. Indeed i have no experience at all in fish fossil preparartion. To be honest i don't even know how to use the sharp tool. And it is pretty hard to come up with a prepartion technique.

And i would like to avoid damaging the fish and chiping large pieces. I just want to make sure that i am goint to do it right.

That is why i am asking you to give me some advise before i get started and to show me how to prepare it.

Thanks,

Dapalis1

PS: i attached some pictures of the slab.

[Phoenixflood]

I don't know either and am soon to be in the same situation as you. I was told, if your fish is from the 18" layer of the Green river formation that you can use a chainsaw file to work on it because that rock is softer. But actually using the file is another thing. I have no clue and don't want to ruin the fish. If anyone out there could provide a tutorial or has the technology to make a video and post it to Youtube or something I would be very grateful!

[Dapalis1]

I don't know either and am soon to be in the same situation as you. I was told, if your fish is from the 18" layer of the Green river formation that you can use a chainsaw file to work on it because that rock is softer. But actually using the file is another thing. I have no clue and don't want to ruin the fish. If anyone out there could provide a tutorial or has the technology to make a video and post it to Youtube or something I would be very grateful!

Take a look at Karl Ulrich website. Fish fossil preparation

I believes it gives some advise about how we should prepare our fish...

But you are right i am more looking for a tutorial or video posted onto Youtube or Dailymotion.

I bet that one of you has already prepared a fish from the 18" layer of the Green River formation.

Come on guys we need your help or at least some advise.

[Roz]

Take a look at Karl Ulrich website. Fish fossil preparation

I believes it gives some advise about how we should prepare our fish...

But you are right i am more looking for a tutorial or video posted onto Youtube or Dailymotion.

I bet that one of you has already prepared a fish from the 18" layer of the Green River formation.

Come on guys we need your help or at least some advise.

Oh, just found this but not a video (BELOW)

Prep For The amateur (Fish Fossils)

Hope that may help a little for you guys..

[RJB]

I dont have a vidio of prepping a fish, but even that really wouldnt work. There are soooo many fish in different kinds of rock. Even the 18 layer has fish in very soft to very hard rock. Your fish looks to be in some very stable rock. I dont know which layer it came from, but there is hard rock in the 18 layer and lots of the marlstone layers too. The thing about small fish is that they can be much harder to prep than a great big fish in the same kind of rock because the bones are sooo much larger. If your rock is too hard you will know as soon as you start prepping it with your 'sharp/pointed' tool If the tip bends, then you will need an airscribe and maybe even an air abrasive unit. In the softer stuff I use one of three different sizes of chain saw files. Its called scratch and blow, and even then you will need to have some glue handy for those 'loose' spots. I call that 'stop and glue' and some fish will need that a hundred times or more!!! Others will work out just fine and dandy. I always start on the head and get that done first. Then I follow the backbone all the way to where the tail just starts to fork. Then its the body part above the spine, but leave the dorsal fin, then I prep out the belly and back to the tail, then I attack the fins. I do the fins last becasue they can be sooooooo damed fragile!!! Expecialy the tippy tips of the fin bones. Soooo damed small! When I think im done, I always put on some very thin water like glue to help hold everything together and it also brings out the fish too. But each and every fish is different, it just takes pratice. I hope this helps.

RB

Oh, I also use a stone and oil to keep my chainsaw files sharp at all times.

[Dapalis1]

Thanks Roz for the link. I know that guy. He prepares and sells Wyoming fossils...

Thanks RJB for this very detailed explanation.

It will definitely help. The fish comes from the Carl Ulrich quarry. What kind of rock is it?

Do you know where i could purchase one of these airscribes...?

[RJB]

Hey Dapalis1. I use the PaleoARO from PaleoTools alot for my fish, but I cant say weather your fish needs this type of tool or not, and the fish in the harder rock also needs an air abrasive unit. This stuff isnt cheap, so you may want to put some seroius thought into it before you start spending this kind of money for a little 3 inch fish?

Ron

[bone digger]

Hey there, I just started prepping Green River fish myself, so I am no expert by any means. The Great RB taught me everything I know! and some I have already forgot!!! All I am using at the moment is a sharpened chainsaw file, just use a bench grinder and sharpen the handle end with a good taper till it's sticky sharp. Then as RB said use a sharpening stone to keep it sharp. The 2 Priscis I have prepped needed to be glued almost constantly, I would uncover as much as I figured I could without any of the fish flaking off and then apply a little glue. I have been using vinac as a glue and it seems to work very well, it holds the fossil together nicely and if I do get some where I don't want it it's not to hard to remove like a super glue would be. One must if you have to glue alot is a bottle with a micro tip applicator so you can control where and how much goes on.

[Dapalis1]

Hey Dapalis1. I use the PaleoARO from PaleoTools alot for my fish, but I cant say weather your fish needs this type of tool or not, and the fish in the harder rock also needs an air abrasive unit. This stuff isnt cheap, so you may want to put some seroius thought into it before you start spending this kind of money for a little 3 inch fish?

Ron

Actually i have a few other fishes to be prepared: 2 small Priscacara and 1 Knightia. I just got started yesterday afternoon but i already enjoy it, it's a lot of fun.

I started with the backbone but it took me a while to bring some fishbones to light.

I only use a sharpened scribe along with an eraser. I remove the dust with a brush. These are very primitive tools but that's all i have for now. That's why i am looking for better tools like yours.

Actually i have two more questions for you guys. I am just a beginner so i am asking these questions without having a clue about the answer.

1-Is this necessary to apply a little glue ? I mean will this really help prevent the fish from flaking off?

2-Probably the most important question. What is the motion of the sharpened tool to chip the rock in small pieces, i mean how do you use and move your sharpened tool?

Dapalis1

[RJB]

1-Is this necessary to apply a little glue ? I mean will this really help prevent the fish from flaking off?

2-Probably the most important question. What is the motion of the sharpened tool to chip the rock in small pieces, i mean how do you use and move your sharpened tool?

Hey Dapalis1. Once you start, you will see if you need any glue or not. Some need tons of glue, others just a tad and some none at all. Each and every fish will be different. I use a very watered down Glyptal, but you can use butvar or vinac. They work just as well. I use a shotglass with a very small artist brush to apply where needed. I also glue the intire fish once done. It wickes into any and all cracks and such that you cant even see almost garanteeing that the fish will stay forever.

As for using the sharpened tool, use it anyway that makes you feel comfortable. Just take your time and dont get in a hurry like I used to. You can loose a bit more bone that way.

Here are three Myoplosis. But each one was different to prep. The first one came out absolutly beautiful. No bone loss and very easy to prep, but used my airabrasive to clean it up a bit. The second one had some soft bone in the belly area and a few other tiny areas and the 3rd one had serious prolems with soft bone. Had to use a lot of glue on that one to save as much as possible. But each one was fun in its own way.

RB

RB

[jbstedman]

I'm not into this (yet), but really enjoyed this great thread. The pictures posted are really beautiful.

[Dapalis1]

1-Is this necessary to apply a little glue ? I mean will this really help prevent the fish from flaking off?

2-Probably the most important question. What is the motion of the sharpened tool to chip the rock in small pieces, i mean how do you use and move your sharpened tool?

Hey Dapalis1. Once you start, you will see if you need any glue or not. Some need tons of glue, others just a tad and some none at all. Each and every fish will be different. I use a very watered down Glyptal, but you can use butvar or vinac. They work just as well. I use a shotglass with a very small artist brush to apply where needed. I also glue the intire fish once done. It wickes into any and all cracks and such that you cant even see almost garanteeing that the fish will stay forever.

As for using the sharpened tool, use it anyway that makes you feel comfortable. Just take your time and dont get in a hurry like I used to. You can loose a bit more bone that way.

Here are three Myoplosis. But each one was different to prep. The first one came out absolutly beautiful. No bone loss and very easy to prep, but used my airabrasive to clean it up a bit. The second one had some soft bone in the belly area and a few other tiny areas and the 3rd one had serious prolems with soft bone. Had to use a lot of glue on that one to save as much as possible. But each one was fun in its own way.

RB

RB

Thanks for the advise and the pictures. I does help understand how i should do it.

Anyway that's my first fish so i am going to do my best to prepare it well but i am quite sure that i am going to lose a few bones. I believe the knightia that i have in hands is more like your first mioplosus,

i mean it should came out quite beautiful even if that's my first preparation ever

I came up with one other question. Indeed how can i scratch away the rock around the fishbones without damaging the fish bone itself? I am afraid of that possibility. Cause the fish came along with a sharpened tool that was in the box (Carl Ulrich preparation kit). The tip of the tool is sharp but it looks thicker than any fishbone....

[RJB]

Hey Dapalis1,, go to your nearest chainsaw store and ask them if you can have a couple of their used files in different sizes. They throw them away when they are done with them. I have never paid for one. Then sharpen them to a fine point. Keep a wet stone nearby to keep it sharp. and just be careful on the bone, but lots of those bones can take some punishment. More than you think, just be careful. You will be fine. Just remember that the smaller the fish, the harder to prep it can be. Such tiny bones. Good luck fella.

RB

[Dapalis1]

Hey Dapalis1, go to your nearest chainsaw store and ask them if you can have a couple of their used files in different sizes. They throw them away when they are done with them. I have never paid for one. Then sharpen them to a fine point. Keep a wet stone nearby to keep it sharp. and just be careful on the bone, but lots of those bones can take some punishment. More than you think, just be careful. You will be fine. Just remember that the smaller the fish, the harder to prep it can be. Such tiny bones. Good luck fella.

RB

Thanks man

I truly appreciate your help!

[Ordovicious]

That is some amazing work. RJB, bonedigger.... I need one of you to do some prepping for me some day. I really respect and admire folks who have that skill.

[RJB]

That is some amazing work. RJB, bonedigger.... I need one of you to do some prepping for me some day. I really respect and admire folks who have that skill.

Hey Ordovicious, Its not skill, its a disease, just ask my wife. But thanks anyhow.

RB

[Hawkeye]

I tried a few things out first but I found that the best tool for getting a sharp tip and holding it was a carbide drill bit. I used a grinder to sharpen the chuck side and I keep them sharp using a whet stone. The nice thing about them is that they come in lots of sizes and they are relatively cheap.

The other thing to remember with a split layer fish (which is what you no doubt got from Ulrich's) is that you want to chip and not scrape. If you scrape you risk removing any small bones or scales. The key is not to push so hard that you stab the piece. The last bit of information that I have to share is to go slooooooowwwwwwww. The more excited you get the bigger chance you'll make a mistake. I know this from personal experience and ruined fish.

Here's a diplomystus that took me about 10 hours:

Although this Knightia split out like this, this is the kind of damage that can result from going too fast:

Here's a discarded piece of Prisci I found at the quarry and took home to practice on. It took me about 50 hours to prep this 8 inch fish half. This actually required some scraping just to get to a point where I could chip. It looks crappy but it was great practice. I've gotten into the habit of picking up sub-optimal fossils because they are great for practicing on without worrying about ruining a prized find. I just bought an air scribe and I have destroyed a few cruddy trilobites just getting used to it. I would have hated to start on my good ones!

[Dapalis1]

I tried a few things out first but I found that the best tool for getting a sharp tip and holding it was a carbide drill bit. I used a grinder to sharpen the chuck side and I keep them sharp using a whet stone. The nice thing about them is that they come in lots of sizes and they are relatively cheap.

The other thing to remember with a split layer fish (which is what you no doubt got from Ulrich's) is that you want to chip and not scrape. If you scrape you risk removing any small bones or scales. The key is not to push so hard that you stab the piece. The last bit of information that I have to share is to go slooooooowwwwwwww. The more excited you get the bigger chance you'll make a mistake. I know this from personal experience and ruined fish.

Actually when i first started i was so excited that i tried to scrape it. I wanted to go fast, very fast i just wanted to bright the bones to light. And unfortunately i removed some small bones. Then i said to myself that i'd better go slow to avoind doing the same mistake twice.

All Ulrich prepation kits come along with a basic sharp tool. At the beginning i was holding it perpendicular to the slab trying to dig it. But soon i realized that it was not the right way to do it.

Now i am holding the tool inclined toward the plane of the slab and i am applying a a low pressure on the rock. I thing that rubbing the limestone covering the fossil is better than trying to dig.

Could you show me some pictures of you tool.

Thanks Hawkeye,

Dapalis1

[Hawkeye]

Could you show me some pictures of you tool.

Thanks Hawkeye,

Dapalis1

Dapalis1,

Here's a picture of the tools I use. The large one is a probe from a dissection kit that I sharpened up.

Here's a close-up of one of my sharpened and an unsharpened bit. Sorry the picture is not in focus. The bit's a little dull right now since I've been using it on my oreodont skull.

I've also used 16 gauge hypodermic needles. They work well but dull very quickly and are so sharp it's easy to stab the fish.

[Dapalis1]

Tonight i am going to show you some pictures of my tools!

[Dapalis1]

Tonight i am going to show you some pictures of my tools!

Here is a picture of my tools:

I don't have a magnifying glass yet but i think that i can do quite a good job with these tools?

[Hawkeye]

Here is a picture of my tools:

I don't have a magnifying glass yet but i think that i can do quite a good job with these tools?

It's not fancy but it should work just fine!

[Dapalis1]

Here are two pictures of what i have prepared so far.

The body:

The head:

In addition to the tools in the picture above, i use a wet sponge to clean up the dust.

Between the fish bones i can see some brown matter that i believe to be its skin? It looks like only some specific areas have the skin preserved? What do you think it is?

How could i scratch off the limestone without removing that very fine skin... ?

Anyway i am making some progress That's the result of three hours of intensive work

[RJB]

Hey Dapalis1. I have a very old time and very slow 56K moden, so any pictures over a 100k I dont bother to open. Sucks, but I live way outside of town and cant get that neato fast stuff. But your 'skin' is actually fish scales. and yes it is very thin, so you have to go slow and be super careful. I wish you luck. Here are a couple of chainsaw files that I use. I also have one that is the size between these two, but cant find it at the moment. And all you have to do is go to your nearest chainsaw store and ask them for their used ones. No charge!!!

RB

[Dapalis1]

Hey Dapalis1. I have a very old time and very slow 56K moden, so any pictures over a 100k I dont bother to open. Sucks, but I live way outside of town and cant get that neato fast stuff. But your 'skin' is actually fish scales. and yes it is very thin, so you have to go slow and be super careful. I wish you luck. Here are a couple of chainsaw files that I use. I also have one that is the size between these two, but cant find it at the moment. And all you have to do is go to your nearest chainsaw store and ask them for their used ones. No charge!!!

RB

Okay. Your tools look much sharper than mine.

I have been told that the sharper the tool, the lower the pressure you need to bright the fossil to light. Is it true?

Cause my tool is not very sharp and i believe i removed some scales by applying to much pressure to them