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Shark Or Fish Teeth?


fossiladdict

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If no one knows what it is, it must be a rudist!

Whut?

No, I already named them.... lylasaurus maddilonus :D

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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Try Kenshu Shimada (DePaul University) or Stephen Cumbaa. It strikes me as similar to the pycnodont in the Cumbaa et al. paper.

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fossiladdict, here are comments from Dr. Earl Manning.

Based strictly on the texture of the bone in the first pic (68), I'd say it's bony fish, likely an oral or pharyngeal toothplate with two teeth (and a third one snapped off its pedestal). The teeth to me don't look either reptilian or mammalian. Because it's not bilaterally symmetrical, I'd guess it's part of a prearticular (lower) toothplate of something, probably the medial-most row of teeth (the largest). I don't think it's modern (carp have complex toothplates, but the teeth don't look like these). As the area collectors have suggested, it's probably lt. E. Cret. (Albian - "middle" Cret. if you divide it in three). There's a big group of bony fish around at that time with fancy toothplates - the pycnodonts - and that may be what it's from, though it doesn't look like any I've seen. It's a pity they didn't include a strictly occlusal view (looking down on the tops of the two teeth), or a scale. There actually is a good review of the E. Cret. pycnodonts of Texas (Thurmond, 1974 - see ref below), but in a quick review of the figures there, I see nothing as blade-like there (they mostly look like rows of corn kernels on a cob). Were they a bit more oval in outline, rounded, and with a row of rounded tubercles near the front edge, you could possibly make an argument for a juv. pycnodont partial toothplate - but these teeth are just too bladelike.

I might mention that I've looked at much of the E. Cret. vert. material Mike's looked at from Kansas, including several pycnodonts, but haven't seen teeth like these. One person you might try sending the pics to is a friend at Southern Methodist Univ., in Dallas, Lou Jacobs ( jacobs@smu.edu ). Earl

Thurmond, J. T., 1974. Lower vertebrate faunas of the Trinity Division in north-central Texas. Geoscience and Man (La. State Univ., Baton Rouge), vol. 8, pp. 103-129.

---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen---

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Thanks, I will take a picture looking down on the top of the teeth and I will try to reach Lou as well as the other 2 mentioned!

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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Try Kenshu Shimada (DePaul University) or Stephen Cumbaa. It strikes me as similar to the pycnodont in the Cumbaa et al. paper.

I had already emailed Kenshu- he never responded. I can't find contact info for Cumbaa.

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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Looking from the top of the teeth down....

post-4072-0-80804200-1345910200_thumb.jpg

post-4072-0-10259100-1345910205_thumb.jpg

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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Long Long shot but. I watched a show on the history channel recently about (Mega Piranah) the fosilised specimen tooth in jaw looked very similar and the only known specimen was not much larger than yours.

Most of the show as usual was about catching and comparing to modern piranah. With the single tooth rowed part of the family tree being the carniverious side and the herbiverious side of the family tree having dual rows of teeth for gripping.

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Which ones were the herbivorous fishes?

.

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scale in avatar is millimeters

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Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser'

____________________

WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org)

____________________

"Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly."

-- Mr. Edonihce

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I googled this

Megapiranha paranensis from the Upper Miocene of Argentina is described based on a large, partially toothed premaxilla as a new genus and species of serrasalmid fish (pacus and piranhas) The age does not fit well at late miocene.

Pacus is the herbivior

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Thanks!

Very interesting....they usually act as herbivores in the wild, but can exhibit omnivorous behavior in captivity.

I guess they are, genetically speaking, really omnivores then, and which way they choose to behave all depends on their current environmental conditions.

.

____________________

scale in avatar is millimeters

____________________

Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser'

____________________

WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org)

____________________

"Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly."

-- Mr. Edonihce

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Very interesting...you don't have any pictures by chance to compare do you?

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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So, if this is what we're looking at in the OP, do you think the ones in the OP are just extremely warn down / eroded then?

.

____________________

scale in avatar is millimeters

____________________

Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser'

____________________

WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org)

____________________

"Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly."

-- Mr. Edonihce

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  • 1 month later...

Have a look at this publication - it might help!

KENSHU SHIMADA, THOMAS E. WILLIAMSON, and PAUL L. SEALEY, 2010. A NEW GIGANTIC PYCNODONT FISH FROM THE JUANA LOPEZ MEMBER OF THE UPPER CRETACEOUS MANCOS SHALE OF NEW MEXICO, U.S.A., Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 30(2):598–603

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Have a look at this publication - it might help!

KENSHU SHIMADA, THOMAS E. WILLIAMSON, and PAUL L. SEALEY, 2010. A NEW GIGANTIC PYCNODONT FISH FROM THE JUANA LOPEZ MEMBER OF THE UPPER CRETACEOUS MANCOS SHALE OF NEW MEXICO, U.S.A., Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 30(2):598–603

I attempted to contact Kenshu and he never responded so I emailed him again today. Maybe he will respond this time.

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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Whooop whoop! :D

Kenshu finally responded and here is what he had to say:

"In any case, here is my assessment of the specimen in question. I think it is from a pycnodont fish, and it may well be a species belonging to a genus I described a couple of years ago, Macropycnodon (see attachment). The highly oblique arrangement of teeth suggests that it is part of a splenial dentition. However, unfortunately, the splenial dentition of Macropycnodon is not known, so I cannot tell if that belongs to either of the two known species M. megafrendodon or M. streckeri. That being said, personally, I think it is from a new species (and from the Middle Turonian where other species of Macropycnodon occur), so it would be worth to deposit it in a public museum that would allow further scientific investigations (and to look for more samples!)."

Maybe I should look for more now lol!!!

Fossils are simply one of the coolest things on earth--discovering them is just marvelous! Makes you all giddy inside!

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All I have to say is: YAHOO!!! That is excellent news!!!! He thinks a new one!!!

Very exciting!! Yes, look more more!!! :D

Welcome to the forum!

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