Tully Trip Fossils - First Look - Need Some Id Help

[hitekmastr]

This is a "first look" at a few of the interesting specimens we collected last week at our visit to Tully, NY. The owner of the property was kind enough to give us permission to do some collecting so we gave it a concerted effort and these are just a few of the dozens of samples. Here is a list of samples included here (more coming soon) - Note - those items that are tentatively identified/confirmed are updated with the ID:

1. Crinoid and Crinoid Disk - this is a beautifully articulated 7 centimeter long crinoid stem which Nancy found attached to the shale substrate exactly as shown in the photo. Also, a small crinoid disk was associated with the stem, located immediately next to the crinoid shaft as shown. Any ID information on this?

2. Mediospirifer - 1a, 1b and 1c is beautifully articulated and was extracted intact as shown. This we've learned is the "internal" view of this creature without the shell, which is fascinating. I've also added two views of a spirifer shell fragment we collected intact but this was identified in another post as probably Mucrospirifer. It's interesting to compare the spirifer without the shell and the spirifer shell fragment. Still not sure if these are two separate spirifers (medio and mucro) or the same.

3. Spyroceras 1a and 1b (side view) (Devonian Cephalopod) - Nancy found this section of a stem and as you can see from these two images (1a and 1b) it is flattened.

4. Glyptotomaria or Cyclonema? - This Devonian gastropod is nicely defined but buried in the shale. We believe this is Glypto rather than Cyclonema because Glypto has been reported at the Tully site. A full jpg sheet of the gastropods we found at Tully is included in the Members Gallery.

5. Chronetes - Brachiopod - This is a familiar shape and common at Tully.

6. Delthyris- Devonian Brachiopod.

7. Greenops Pygidium - Trilobite - I found this at the bottom of the shale formation behind the Best Western Hotel, just lying exposed below a small eroded gully. Any idea what flavor of trilobite this might be?

Thanks everyone for identifying these specimens.

Edited July 19, 2012 by hitekmastr

[mzkleen]

Great finds!! Sounds like you made quite a haul.

[Fossildude19]

Your trilobite looks to be a Greenops pygidium.

2 is some kind of spiriferid brachiopod.

3 looks like a cephalopod.

Maybe Bembexia or Glyptotomaria on the gastropod?

Interesting link for helping with ID's HERE and another one HERE.

Nice finds - thanks for posting.

Regards,

Edited July 14, 2012 by Fossildude19

[hitekmastr]

Your trilobite looks to be a Greenops pygidium.

2 is some kind of spiriferid brachiopod.

3 looks like a cephalopod.

Maybe Bembexia or Glyptotomaria on the gastropod?

Interesting link for helping with ID's HERE and another one HERE.

Nice finds - thanks for posting.

Regards,

Thanks for the IDs and the links...much appreciated! We're studying our specimens now. Our first post will include the gastropods we collected. More coming as we have time to photograph and catalog the Tully specimens. We tried to focus on unique or interesting specimens as fully articulated as possible, and still collected a lot. Have several very thin bivalve shells, will post soon.

[Shamalama]

Love the Tully, I must have passed through there right after you as I saw some pits but not a lot of fossils around.

2. - Mediospirifer internal mold (a little distorted too)

3. - Spyroceras

4. - Looks like a Cyclonema gastropod to me.

5. - Chonetes sp. brachiopod

6. - Delthyris sculptilis I think.

7. - Looks like the pygidium of a Greenops trilobite.

Check out this page from Karl Wilson's great website New York Paleontology for more fossils from the Tully.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Shamalama

[hitekmastr]

hitekmastr, you might want to modify your picture file names to not reveal more personal information than necessary.

You found some nice Devonian fossil specimens. Shamalama's ID's sound correct. Happy Hunting!

I don't have a problem revealing my name. Thx for the advice, though.

[Roadrunner]

Nice finds!

[FossilDAWG]

Did Cyclonema persist until the Devonian? I thought that was an Ordovician/Early Silurian genus. Other IDs all seem reasonable to me, Shamalama would certainly be the one to know.

Don

Edited July 17, 2012 by FossilDAWG

[Shamalama]

Don, I think it might have a different name but some publications in PA list it as a valid genus, notably:

R. L. Ellison. 1965. Stratigraphy and Paleontology of the Mahantango Formation in south-central Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania Geological Survey Bulletin G48 1-298 [A. Miller/K. Layou]

Me, I think it's a different name now (possibly Glyptotomaria as Tim suggested above) but I haven't researched it too much yet.

[FossilDAWG]

I found a 1970 monograph on the Cincinnattian Cyclonema species that lists species from other formations and geographic areas. Several Devonian Cyclonemas are listed, but all with the comment that they are not true Cyclonema. In some cases other genera were suggested, and in other cases the comment is made that a new genus will have to be described to fit the species. Anyway, it seems the name has certainly been used for Devonian forms (which I did not know), but the consensus now is that they all belong to other genera and Cyclonema is restricted to the Ordovician and early Silurian.

Don

Edited July 18, 2012 by FossilDAWG

[Fossildude19]

I had just mentioned the Glyptotomaria as that was the best match I found on Karl Wilson's website (in the second link I posted).

Link to the Gastropods found at the Tully Site.

Regards,

Edited July 18, 2012 by Fossildude19

[Shamalama]

Last night I went through my copy of "Geology and Paleontology of 18 Mile Creek" and while Grabau does not list Cyclonema he does list Pleurtomaria which is similiar is shape. However Pleurtomaria is used to describe gastropod fossils from the Jurassic in Europe. So then I checked "AN UPDATE OF GENERA AND SPECIES DESCRIBED IN A.W. GRABAU'S GEOLOGY AND PALAEONTOLOGY OF EIGHTEEN MILE CREEK" Compiled by Dr. Richard Batt, July 1994 (revised February 1998) and they had updated the six or so species listed in the original book to three genera: Mourlonia, Euryzone and Glyptotomaria.

So I'm going to go with Tim and say it's Glyptotomaria based on the above info plus the fact that Karl Wilson list that as well.

[hitekmastr]

Last night I went through my copy of "Geology and Paleontology of 18 Mile Creek" and while Grabau does not list Cyclonema he does list Pleurtomaria which is similiar is shape. However Pleurtomaria is used to describe gastropod fossils from the Jurassic in Europe. So then I checked "AN UPDATE OF GENERA AND SPECIES DESCRIBED IN A.W. GRABAU'S GEOLOGY AND PALAEONTOLOGY OF EIGHTEEN MILE CREEK" Compiled by Dr. Richard Batt, July 1994 (revised February 1998) and they had updated the six or so species listed in the original book to three genera: Mourlonia, Euryzone and Glyptotomaria.

So I'm going to go with Tim and say it's Glyptotomaria based on the above info plus the fact that Karl Wilson list that as well.

Thanks for the excellent discussion and diligent research! I've changed the name of the file and listing in the original note (above) and will go with "Glypto" but will also remain open to the "cyclo" debate!

Edited July 22, 2012 by hitekmastr

[erose]

I found a 1970 monograph on the Cincinnattian Cyclonema species that lists species from other formations and geographic areas. Several Devonian Cyclonemas are listed, but all with the comment that they are not true Cyclonema. In some cases other genera were suggested, and in other cases the comment is made that a new genus will have to be described to fit the species. Anyway, it seems the name has certainly been used for Devonian forms (which I did not know), but the consensus now is that they all belong to other genera and Cyclonema is restricted to the Ordovician and early Silurian.

Don

Cyclonema is the normal looking predecessor to the "Platycerids" (Sp?) that are very common in the Devonian and later.

[Shamalama]

Really? Wow! I was just wondering that the other day. How did they determine the liniage? I'd have thought they came from Platystoma or Nanticonema.

[hitekmastr]

How interesting! Didn't think that the inclusion of a fossil snail would provoke such a spirited debate on taxonomy! Thanks to everyone for the really interesting back and forth on this - looks like the consensus comes down to glyptotomaria, for a variety of reasons.

Images of all our gastropods (or fossils that LOOK like gastropods) are included on our Tully NY Trip report in the "trip" section of this forum. The gastro images are numbered. Some of the gastros were found at the site but about half were discovered later after we examined our specimens more closely and started documenting our fossils with closeup photos.