New Fossils For Cash Reality Show?

[Ramo]

"The Fo$$il Hunter"

"tied in the aspect of making money" Looks like that is the entire focus of the show when you use dollar signs to spell fossil. I could tell you what I think of "realityTV", and your show in particular, but this is a kid friendly site.

Ramo

[Kosmoceras]

Thank you. What many want is to just get rid of the money bit, as currently it is focused on making money and greed. That is what a lot of this commotion is about.

[Auspex]

Now, now, here's an opportunity to offer constructive input; what would be an exciting spin that would not denigrate the hobby/passion/profession? Today's TV audiences are hard to get and hard to keep. If a show that portrays fossil hunting in a positive way can be done, we should try to help make it so. (Let's not risk having the concept picked-up as-is!)

[Xiphactinus]

If you are looking for excitement, how about fossil rescue? This is a real-life problem. Every day, fossils are destroyed through mining, damming of rivers, construction....and there is a race against time to find, excavate and save the fossils from "extinction". See the stunning finds at Snowmass, Colorado last year.

[Fossildude19]

If the show were focused on the educational, moral, conservation and discovery aspects, while getting rid of the "sell fossils for cash" aspect, then it might be a worthwhile show. I dislike reality TV, because it's scripted, and not "Reality" at all.

Sadly, the average people who LIKE "reality TV" will be the ones who ruin fossil hunting for those of us who collect responsibly.

Regards,

[trilobiteruss]

I think we all agree that fossil collecting has a place for both commercial, amateur and professional collectors. When done with the value on what the fossils represent, care in finding, excavating, documenting and such these objects we all value so much are something that can improve our understanding of life and its history. Commercial collecting has its place as the work does cost be it for commercial, professional or just collectors. I am not a real fan of reality shows so I might not have much to contribute in this discussion, but I think that some of the concerns, fears here are valid. You have to understand there is a divide between professional (paid scientists) vs hobby collectors in some ranks of these collectors, where some professionals feel it should all go to museums, and they have difficulty in accepting those of us who collect for a hobby. Other professionals understand and are quite cooperative. But this reality show as it currently is designed will only increase the problems between these groups of collectors (commercial, hobby and professional). Yes fossil hunting is a treasure hunt, but those specimens are valuable pieces of history (what the professionals and hobbyist here all agree on) that is the real treasure, sure making a big find that provides income to do more collecting (why I now sell since I retired from the profession of geology and paleontology) as does smaller incomes. But the collecting involves more than just running around, in involves the research to find good areas, field reconnaissance, careful study of geology, and when items are found careful work to excavate and document their stratigraphic occurrences.

I think the ideas here of the romanticism of just the find, the importance to understanding the history of life on earth, understanding changes to ecosystems and the earth, finding remais that have not been seen for hundreds of millions of years, and knowledge itself can be items that should be emphasized in any show. Look at what the PBS stations do with Nova, National Geographic, David Attenbourough and other shows that have been shown. If more of this educational aspect could be included, the thrill of the hunt, the scientific and educational value of the find, and so on maybe more here might find your ideas worth watching. Just focusing on the money to be made will convince others even if the two gentlemen are collectors like the rest of us to just go out without any knowledge how to find an properly deal with the fossil just focusing only on the money.

I realize this is like the pawn shop reality show, like the antiques roadshow in terms of hoping to strike it rich, and so on. But since the two collectors in video are collecting, and seem to understand (you can find the first guy right on the web if you type his name and he is from Kansas as we were told) and supposedly have collections they keep, want to educate kids they sound alot like us in that respect. It sound like the original ideas included more of what we are about, I know you have to selll this but as folks to love the science of paleontology and our collecting we would love to see more of those ideasa restored in some way but still allowing for the "excitement aspect" that is wanted to sell the idea?

Just my two cents...

russ

[Ramo]

I would watch a show that travels around the country, showing different private collectors, their collections, how they work with kids and schools. How they work with local museums, and how careful they are when they find stuff. (Not just tossing rocks in a bucket) There are tons of collectors on this website that could each have an episode devoted to them and thier area. I would love to watch something like that.

[Raistlin]

I get my son interested in fossils through my own interest and through what we do together. He loves dinos, we found our first trilobite (I had stopped collecting since I was a kid and got back into it) together, and he enjoys the cool finds I bring home and educate him about (to the best of my limited abilities). If more parents actually took time and got involved in what their kids did they could do this as well. Sadly today many parents suck and could careless as long as the kid leaves them alone to play video games, the kid gets planted in front of the TV or more video games.

Now that that is out of the way. I would watch a show that centered on the education and care, not to mention rescue of fossils. The show as is, is about nothing but dollar signs, which in a failing economy will be of great interest to many but will hurt collecting for the rest of us through just out right ignorance. Look at all the other stupid money making shows on TV today. I am trying to say things as calmly as possible, but really the show as is pisses me off.

I like the idea posted talking about The Crocodile Hunter. If the show was like that and involved fossils it would be great. Entertaining and educational. Think about it millions loved watching that show. He had so much zeal for what he was doing that he captured people with just that. Then when he had them he taught them things as well. Not only did he teach them about the animals he taught them about how to care for them and their ecosystem.

If you want a fossil show rewrite it as is I hope it stays dead. Get rid of the money aspect of it and the making it rich idea and it might be worth something.

[Ameenah]

If the show were to emphasize the fascination with fossils, with ancient life, with the excitement of discovering and collecting them and interpreting what they can tell us, it could be a far more interesting and compelling program than one which trivializes the endeavor with the acquisition of "mad cash". Think "Cosmose". Is there any hope for a format with this style and substance?

I second that

[thanatocoenosis]

You act like it some kind of rocket science tho.

I know a few paleontologists, and believe it or not, a prereq for their undergrad was General University Physics. So yes, they do know a bit about "rocket science".

Perhaps, you were attempting to parrot Richard Feynman's insipid comment(... from your sentence structure, I doubt it), Dr. Fortey succinctly addressed Feynman's poorly constructed argument in: "Trilobite! Eyewitness to evolution".

[Trevor]

I hope that show never airs, because if it does it will ruin the collecting for a lot of us. I'm a responsible collector an I collect for pleasure and science, not for money or peoples entertainment.

[DeloiVarden]

Hello everyone, I'm one of the producers of the Fossil Hunter. I would also like to apologize for the confusion caused by the person who manages our presence on the web. (Youtube, Twitter,etc.) We've had a talk and taken care of things. I'm not here to start an argument or to try to change anyone's mind. Each of us are entitled to our own opinions, and I respect your opinions of this project.

This project was never meant to make light of or disrespect the activity of fossil hunting or the fossils found. If nothing else, this was supposed bring some attention to fossil hunting. We tied in the aspect of making money because we wanted to take this project to television. With the popularity of shows like this, we thought this would be a fun way to do it. We needed a some kind of prize, along with the fossil itself, for all of the hard work that goes into finding a great fossil.

This project was shot completely independently. No networks or production companies were involved during production. It was just two independent filmmakers with an idea. We volunteered our time, money, and abilities to make this happen, We had a blast doing it. I had never been fossil hunting and was amazed and intrigued at what we found. It was fun and it's an activity that I could enjoy with my kids sometime.

Please don't judge Rob and Marcus by what you see in the show. They are real guys and are really into fossils and minerals. They are some of the nicest guys you will ever meet.

We shopped this show out to networks, but as of now, it hasn't been picked up. Anyone would want something that their own blood and sweat went into creating to be successful, so we're not giving up on it yet. We are proud of our project, but we have talked about changing it a bit. If the show were about a handful of fossil hunters who hunted, then compared their finds, would it change any of your opinions? A little friendly competition between hunters? We're interested in your thoughts.

Thank you for your input on our work.

Take care.

I appreciate your asking our opinion. So here goes. I think it would be crucial regardless of the exact direction such a show may take, that you emphasize the responsible collection of fossils and artifacts. Besides the often back breaking nature and extreme patience it takes, you would need to cover angles such as local, state, and national laws that regulate the responsible collection of fossils and artifacts. Each state is different and often locations within a state are treated differently. The laws are "usually" there for a reason and encourage responsable behavior. Any show which is soley geared toward the profit side will cause a backlash or pendulum swing toward even stricter laws. Essentially, the bad behavior of a few (in this case those on the show), could likely lead to tighter laws spoiling the activity for the rest. I know specifically of such cases locally and know it happens across the country and even in other countries. The recent auction of the illegally obtained T-Rex is just such a case. I don't know why a show that educates and highlights the social aspects of the hobby of fossil collecting couldn't be entertaining enough. When I had cable, I used to love watching the folks that did gold panning, and they highlighted the social aspects (time with friends and family). Just as is the case with fossils, it isn't just about the find, but the experience searching. Sure, talk a little bit about value and rarity, but do not make the show about making it big (rich or fame). That is my two cents. Jason

[siteseer]

With "Pawn Stars," "American Pickers," "Storage Wars," and similar shows it's always about how much the stuff is worth. The identity of the item becomes less important than the perceived value. Things that are worth at least a few hundred dollars become more interesting. These shows play to that fantasy of finding the rare (=valuable) item in the basement that can pay off the house or make some other dream come true.

That show "Cash for Treasures" was about digging for minerals and sometimes fossils with the hostess finding getting her finds appraised at the end. Each episode, she found at least a few hundred dollars worth of stuff. Was she extraordinarily lucky each day or do you think that a few extra specimens ended up in her haul?

Fossil hunting is not a path to riches. In the 90's, I hunted one day near Jordan, Montana and walked the Hell Creek Formation and yet I managed not to find a Tyrannosaurus tooth. In fact, I didn't find anything. I have found nothing more often than I care to admit (and I do a lot of reading and copying at libraries to put myself at localities where people have found fossils before).

A friend once realized that fossil dealers are not rich when he looked over the dealer parking lot of a Tucson fossil show. He saw Chevys, Fords, and Hondas but no Mercedes nor BMW's. Most fossil dealers take advantage of the free breakfast at the hotel, make their own sandwiches for lunch, and have another sandwich for dinner (or get fast food).

I've been going to Tucson since the late 80's (and Denver maybe half those years) and I don't recognize those guys. Obviously, I can't know everybody but I would think any longtime Kansas hunters would have heard of them. It makes me wonder if they are actually actors.

That spray looks like a can of Bull's Eye shellac.

[DeloiVarden]

I live in the shark tooth capital of the world (in my opinion) and know several big shark tooth dealers and none of them are rich. I have friends that have come from out of town to visit me and were afraid to leave their car in my driveway

[Kosmoceras]

I live in the shark tooth capital of the world (in my opinion)

I agree, you do have some amazing teeth in abundance where you are.

[Wrangellian]

I have to concur with pretty much everyone else here. There is a debate between amateurs like myself and pros over the issue of selling. The pros tend to be against it, while some of us amateurs would like to be able to sell off a few spare specimens to offset the larger costs of collecting (not expecting to make a profit at all), and still be in the pros' good books. Such a show as this I fear would only add ammunition to their argument.

I like Xiphactinus' and Ramo's ideas. Fossil Rescue or something like that.

[Raistlin]

I wonder if they are coming back. They asked for opinion and then stop the discussion it seems. I do not think anyone has been rude to them personally, though certainly I think the idea of the show as is could cause one to become a bit upset.

It almost seems as if they felt there was a bump in the road and wanted to try to smooth it out without really caring about what caused the bump. Sweet words do not fix problems but calm discussions can.

I think everyone here has basically come out and said the show needs to be rehashed from the beginning. I would have expected those who have vested interest in the show to post up that they are indeed listening to prospective "buyers" of their product. The show as is though will get a lot of backlash from the community as a whole. The ball it seems is in their court, are they going to continue to play or just go home with it?

[Auspex]

They took a pretty good beating here, as far as vehement criticism goes, so I don't blame them for being gun shy.

I would have enjoyed some positive give-and-take, but they really don't owe us a thing.

[Raistlin]

I agree they do not owe us anything. I didn't mean it to sound as if I were implying that. I am a bit more accustomed to some fairly in-depth discussions going on s the being gun shy is something that I don't see very often.

I am used to seeing some fight to the bitter end even if they have been proven wrong lol. Either they are just blind or don't want to admit they were wrong. I would have loved for them to have stuck around though and settled in for opinion not just ask for it and leave. Verbal beatings are not that bad I think everyone has taken at least a few, it builds character

I would love to see a fossil show on TV though, mostly because I would hope to learn from it myself.

[Auspex]

I don't think for a minute that I know any more about making successful TV shows than they (the vid's producers) know about the fossil enthusiasts' scene. For all I know, their concept is golden! We don't occupy a very sizable sliver of the viewing public, so we can't really expect to be catered to. Still, if we keep throwing mud on the walls, maybe some of it will stick!

[Raistlin]

Haha true. I have never produced or written a show. I have watched some but never been a part of the creating process.

You are also correct that this community (TFF) is not represenitive as a whole, though it would be nice if it were.

If we throw mud our hands will get dirty

Well more so than normal LOL.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

dinosaur george blasing had a show on cable a few years back, but i think it catered mainly to kids. he's a friend of mine and back on the elem school/ library lecture circuit. must be a better gig for him. not sure exactly how it fared, but it wasnt about commrrcial fossil sales.

[DrVideoPro]

I'm still here. I've been reading your responses and appreciate your input. I'm not here to argue about this show. We created this with our own hard work and money. We're proud of our product, but we know it isn't perfect and could benefit from some changes. I'm glad you all watched our sizzle reel and gave your input. We'll just have to see where we end up as we rework the project.

[Raistlin]

I'm still here. I've been reading your responses and appreciate your input. I'm not here to argue about this show. We created this with our own hard work and money. We're proud of our product, but we know it isn't perfect and could benefit from some changes. I'm glad you all watched our sizzle reel and gave your input. We'll just have to see where we end up as we rework the project.

That's cool and I understand that as well. I am glad you came back to tell us you were reading stuff. You didn't have to but it shows that you care what others think.

I hope things work out for the best with the show.

[Roadrunner]

Reality TV is like the ten plagues of Egypt.

I agree! Last year I told my students that Reality TV is cheap TV. The "script" is often bad, and there is no plot. It is very boring, and often stupid.

And as all of you have said, this appealing to the baser aspects of people - greed, is what has caused most problems in society today.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Roadrunner