St. Clair - Orange Fern Fossils

[hitekmastr]

This trip report complements MZKLEEN's report - we were there the same day except we mostly collected orange and yellow fern leaves. We did not see or hear the bear although we saw the signs the bear was in the area while we were there. This was a 90 minute drive for us so when we heard about the possibility it might be converted to a landfill, we made this a priority visit.

St. Clair is an abandoned strip mine that looks like a broad saucer shaped depression with smooth shale covering the floor, surrounded all around by wooded hills. It's a fairly long walk through the woods to get there, but extremely scenic. Some of our photos show the layout and fossils scattered on the ground which is impressive and a little startling the first time you see this.

Note: I added a few more pictures and here is some additional ID info: Most of the orange leaves are Alethopteris, some neuropteris and others here and there. The clover shaped leaves are Sphenophyllum (we also found Annularia and Calamites trunk fossils but most of these non-ferns are colored except for No. 5b below). The bark photo that I added is Sigillaria - a really interesting pattern, must have been impressive looking. The golden yellow image (just added) is Sphenopteris. There is also a reddish-orange sprig added to show that some of the specimens are almost red in color. The last image is a "stick" or stem found by Nan in a nicely articulated form.

We had 3 goals for our trip: 1) collect a large specimen we could display on the wall or like a sculpture, 2) find some out of the ordinary fossils, and 3) see if there might be some insects along with the plant fossils.

Goal 1: We explored places that didn't look like previous collectors had been there and excavated a very large rock that included a peek-a-boo glimpse of a layer covered with orange and yellow ferns. It took some effort to chisel away the layers of non-fossiliferous shale to free the fossil portion but when the shale fell away with the last chisel blow, wow, our eyes grew as big as saucers. The specimen turned out to be a large piece of shale 25 x 15 inches and several inches thick, covered with beautifully arranged, nicely articulated orange and yellow fossil leaves including many different types. Hiking back to the car was a challenge, given the awkward shape, jagged edges and weight of the sample but we accomplished our goal. A closeup of a small portion is included here and you can see how dense the fossils are! We also collected smaller pieces and one very nice one foot long sample covered with orange leaves.

Goal 2: Nancy has a keen eye for out of the ordinary patterns and designs - she is expert at finding sphenophyllum, annularia, calamite bark and so on - we accomplished this goal also and learned a LOT about the plants and trees that exited during this period.

Goal 3: No insects, but we still believe there must be some insects here, somewhere, since so many of the leaves are in perfect shape - not dried, curled or rotten - they look like they were buried in a mudslide or something, since there is almost no deterioration. This suggests there must have been some insects trapped somewhere.

We plan to return soon to continue our exploration. There is a lot here to learn about and find. Hopefully we'll find more cool fossils (and no bears with cubs!).

UPDATE: We revisited the site Aug. 4. You can read see our 2nd Visit trip report in a separate "orange fossil" post (no bears this time). We also posted some of our unusual finds in Fossil ID under "St. Clair 2nd Visit - Pennsylvanian Plant Fossils and Seeds" - many of the "unknowns" turned out to be fossils we did not see on our first visit. We pretty much doubled the number of species from this site, in our second visit, showing the diversity at this site. We think we accomplished a lot in 2 half-day visits.

Edited August 18, 2012 by hitekmastr

[Auspex]

Great success! You two make a real team

Regarding insect fossils from Saint Clair, Shamalama scored some beautiful wings there: LINK

Get thee hence at the next opportunity; further successes await!

[Raistlin]

Wow it is like the rocks there are nothing but fossils. Cool finds for sure.

What is the difference though from the white, yellow, and orange ferns? Is it just color?

[mzkleen]

Great finds and great pics!! You 2 really hit the jackpot!! I'm going to be going back sometime soon myself. There are some other areas nearby that I want to check out. I want to check out the area on the other side of that road and see what is around there. I'm going to check out that whole area on Googel Earth and plan my next visit accordingly.

[hitekmastr]

Great success! You two make a real team

Regarding insect fossils from Saint Clair, Shamalama scored some beautiful wings there: LINK

Get thee hence at the next opportunity; further successes await!

We saw the wings, that's what got us interested in looking for insects - but the insects aren't tiny, they are HUGE so finding something requires looking in larger slabs, which is always a challenge.

[hitekmastr]

Great finds and great pics!! You 2 really hit the jackpot!! I'm going to be going back sometime soon myself. There are some other areas nearby that I want to check out. I want to check out the area on the other side of that road and see what is around there. I'm going to check out that whole area on Googel Earth and plan my next visit accordingly.

Wow - Google Earth - that's a GREAT idea. I noticed that when you first emerge from the trail to the top end of the open area - directly across the pit is another trail or entrance and we were curious about that area. We noticed that all the white fossils seem to be higher up on the edges. Lots more to explore there. We think a really terrific "find" such as insects or even a vertebrate would give a major push to the anti-landfill people.

[hitekmastr]

Wow it is like the rocks there are nothing but fossils. Cool finds for sure.

What is the difference though from the white, yellow, and orange ferns? Is it just color?

I'm not a geological expert but here's what I know: pyrite replaced the organic plant material (fern leaves, stems, bark ,etc.) and then the orange pyrite chemically morphs into the white material which is called Pyrophyllite - most experts say this is a rare occurrence which makes the St. Clair mine pit unique in the world of fossils (and important to preserve). The orange fossils actually range from yellow to deep red. Some are "metallic gold" because pyrite is also called "fool's gold" but most are not metallic or shiny, just colored.

What is most impressive to us is that there is very little deterioration among the leaves, which are preserved more or less intact and look like they were healthy and living when preserved - most are flat, not curled or jumbled up as you might expect - we didn't see many that looked like they were dried up, rotting or even folded, which is odd. We wonder what event preserved so much and kept the pristine shape of the leaves. The fact that the leaves are so well perserved suggests they were caught in some event that buried them while they were healthy, living and attached to the stems and branches...which also suggests there must have been at least a few insects buried with them, which is an intriguing challenge to us.

[Fossildude19]

Just be aware that the area on the north side of the Burma Rd. is the area (I think - not positive) that Reading Anthracite owns.

That is the area that you need to have the $100.00 permit to access the land.

I think they may have people patrolling the area.

Hopefully someone more familiar with the area will clarify.

Regards,

[Auspex]

I understand that the bacteria capable of breaking down lignin had yet to evolve, so the accumulation of massive deposits of fallen vegetation had plenty of time to be buried without significant decomposition.

[hitekmastr]

Just be aware that the area on the north side of the Burma Rd. is the area (I think - not positive) that Reading Anthracite owns.

That is the area that you need to have the $100.00 permit to access the land.

I think they may have people patrolling the area.

Hopefully someone more familiar with the area will clarify.

Regards,

Thanks for the headsup...we are totally south of Burma Road. The only creatures we know of that were patrolling this abandoned pit was the bear and cub spotted by MZKLEEN...I read several posts that suggested the mining folks are not too fossil friendly.

[Raistlin]

I'm not a geological expert but here's what I know: pyrite replaced the organic plant material (fern leaves, stems, bark ,etc.) and then the orange pyrite chemically morphs into the white material which is called Pyrophyllite - most experts say this is a rare occurrence which makes the St. Clair mine pit unique in the world of fossils (and important to preserve). The orange fossils actually range from yellow to deep red. Some are "metallic gold" because pyrite is also called "fool's gold" but most are not metallic or shiny, just colored.

What is most impressive to us is that there is very little deterioration among the leaves, which are preserved more or less intact and look like they were healthy and living when preserved - most are flat, not curled or jumbled up as you might expect - we didn't see many that looked like they were dried up, rotting or even folded, which is odd. We wonder what event preserved so much and kept the pristine shape of the leaves. The fact that the leaves are so well perserved suggests they were caught in some event that buried them while they were healthy, living and attached to the stems and branches...which also suggests there must have been at least a few insects buried with them, which is an intriguing challenge to us.

Thanks for the information. You might not think you are an expert, but you certainly have more information than I have/had lol. If I ever get up that way I so want to check that area out, maybe you all could show me around even lol.

Just be aware that the area on the north side of the Burma Rd. is the area (I think - not positive) that Reading Anthracite owns.

That is the area that you need to have the $100.00 permit to access the land.

I think they may have people patrolling the area.

Hopefully someone more familiar with the area will clarify.

Regards,

Hmm $100 kind of sucks, but in a way it would be worth it to find some fossils like that.

[hitekmastr]

Thanks for the information. You might not think you are an expert, but you certainly have more information than I have/had lol. If I ever get up that way I so want to check that area out, maybe you all could show me around even lol.

Hmm $100 kind of sucks, but in a way it would be worth it to find some fossils like that.

I'm assuming that the large pit south of Burma is ok esp. given all the activity we saw - small pits here and there and a couple of semi-permanent excavations with blue tarp covers. Only one other collector (MZKLEEN) was there the day we visited, along with some ATV riders and someone doing target practice with a shotgun. There are directions to the site online - there is a small gravel pull-off on Burma Road, which holds half a dozen cars I guess. From there, it really is a 1500 foot hike through the woods (I did it twice to haul out our large rock).

I did a Google Earth scan which MZKLEEN suggested - it shows the pit and also if you scan over the hills it reveals a massive pit mining operation, more valleys, hills/mountains, water...the satellite images are magnificent. Also, I got a few ideas for new places to explore from the Google Earth images. I had no idea all that mining activity was going on, just a few hills away from this site.

[hitekmastr]

I understand that the bacteria capable of breaking down lignin had yet to evolve, so the accumulation of massive deposits of fallen vegetation had plenty of time to be buried without significant decomposition.

That's a terrific insight. I keep forgetting that many of the Devonian-Carboniferous fossils were being formed in low oxygen environments in the water so organisms that were submerged didn't necessarily decay like they do today. Didn't know about the bacteria but that's really fascinating. It really puts things in perspective in terms of how life was evolving and emerging - a lot of the biological and eco-systems we take for granted - even flowers and common insects - weren't around yet. These factoids make this an even more intriguing hobby!

On another topic - We're still curious about the absence of insects at St. Clair - must be more there than have been reported. We think it would require some large rock fragmenting to find them, given their size. I also read recently that the best place to find fossil insects is in the shale directly above anthracite coal beds. Not sure where those might be but we're just beginning to check out this and maybe we can identify some sites to explore.

[Raistlin]

I'm assuming that the large pit south of Burma is ok esp. given all the activity we saw - small pits here and there and a couple of semi-permanent excavations with blue tarp covers. Only one other collector (MZKLEEN) was there the day we visited, along with some ATV riders and someone doing target practice with a shotgun. There are directions to the site online - there is a small gravel pull-off on Burma Road, which holds half a dozen cars I guess. From there, it really is a 1500 foot hike through the woods (I did it twice to haul out our large rock).

I did a Google Earth scan which MZKLEEN suggested - it shows the pit and also if you scan over the hills it reveals a massive pit mining operation, more valleys, hills/mountains, water...the satellite images are magnificent. Also, I got a few ideas for new places to explore from the Google Earth images. I had no idea all that mining activity was going on, just a few hills away from this site.

Well if I get up that way I will certainly have to check it out. Around here all I know of finding is ocean life. Not that it is all bad, it would be cool to find other stuff also. Though there is the one area where a dino was found but that would be off limits to the likes of me.

[mzkleen]

Maybe those of us that are going there in the future can map out some of the mine area a bit as to what is in each area, etc. To explore the whole mine area you really need one of those ATV's. There's so much ground to cover.

I do wish that people would be more respectful of nature and not leave trash there, or bust glass beer bottles, and leave all those shotgun shell casings.

Judy

[Raistlin]

Maybe those of us that are going there in the future can map out some of the mine area a bit as to what is in each area, etc. To explore the whole mine area you really need one of those ATV's. There's so much ground to cover.

I do wish that people would be more respectful of nature and not leave trash there, or bust glass beer bottles, and leave all those shotgun shell casings.

Judy

This seems to be problem everywhere. It upsets me to know end seeing garbage all over. You did remind me that I need to put a trash bag in my pack just for this, been meaning too but always forget when I get home. Putting one in now.

[Auspex]

...We're still curious about the absence of insects at St. Clair - must be more there than have been reported. We think it would require some large rock fragmenting to find them, given their size. I also read recently that the best place to find fossil insects is in the shale directly above anthracite coal beds. Not sure where those might be but we're just beginning to check out this and maybe we can identify some sites to explore.

The preservational environment of the frond layers may not have favored insects; certainly there were plenty of insects living there and then, but the chemistry might have been wrong. Exploring non-frond layers might be the way to go.

[mommabetts]

Very nice finds, thanks for sharing them.

[hitekmastr]

The preservational environment of the frond layers may not have favored insects; certainly there were plenty of insects living there and then, but the chemistry might have been wrong. Exploring non-frond layers might be the way to go.

I keep wondering if anything was burrowing into the trunks...lots of trunk material around and some can be easily fragmented to inspect - tried a few but no such luck.

[Fossildude19]

If we use what we see today to explain what may have happened at the St.Clair fern beds, it might go like this. A lowland plain area with heavy to light vegetation gets inundated with muddy flood water from higher ground. The storm event sweeps leaves off high plants into the mud torrent along with air column life, weaker trees and anything else it can carry. The cycle can repeat often with some calmer times, letting forest floor litter build up and other times of more mud than litter. Studying the different layers of shale at St.Clair does certainly allow this model to appear valid.

If one watches the fossils, what is seen is paleosols with Stigmaria rootlets in life positions, fallen tree trunks of various sizes, leaflets, some whole fronds, seeds, places with rip-rap, areas with very little fossils, layers with fern on fern buildup and some coal beds indicating bog areas.

In Joggins, Nova Scotia, reptiles have been found in the trunks of trees. Similar time, similar area and a similar model. After hunting the shales of St. Clair for over ten years, I can't say as I have found any conclusive fossils of insect preditation on the vegetation. I don't think populations were as high as we think. We see insects all around today, but how often do we see an insect carcass lying on the ground? Now take into consideration how may of those insects would get covered by soil and get to be a fossil, the odds drop off dramatically.

I give you my feelings why insects are so hard to find at St. Clair. We do find them there though, to our delight.

Thanks Fossilcrazy for this lucid and plausible scenario!

Regards,

[hitekmastr]

If we use what we see today to explain what may have happened at the St.Clair fern beds, it might go like this. A lowland plain area with heavy to light vegetation gets inundated with muddy flood water from higher ground. The storm event sweeps leaves off high plants into the mud torrent along with air column life, weaker trees and anything else it can carry. The cycle can repeat often with some calmer times, letting forest floor litter build up and other times of more mud than litter. Studying the different layers of shale at St.Clair does certainly allow this model to appear valid.

If one watches the fossils, what is seen is paleosols with Stigmaria rootlets in life positions, fallen tree trunks of various sizes, leaflets, some whole fronds, seeds, places with rip-rap, areas with very little fossils, layers with fern on fern buildup and some coal beds indicating bog areas.

In Joggins, Nova Scotia, reptiles have been found in the trunks of trees. Similar time, similar area and a similar model. After hunting the shales of St. Clair for over ten years, I can't say as I have found any conclusive fossils of insect predidation on the vegetation. I don't think populations were as high as we think. We see insects all around today, but how often do we see an insect carcass lying on the ground? Now take into consideration how may of those insects would get covered by soil and get to be a fossil, the odds drop off dramatically.

I give you my feelings why insects are so hard to find at St. Clair. We do find them there though, to our delight.

This is an invaluable perspective and helps us visualize what was happening there. The more details we learn, the more intrigued we become. Each comment on this thread is a revelation. By the way, Nancy and I are reading a very cool glossy color book called PREHISTORIC LIFE (published by DK) and there is a reference to a neuropteris leaf showing signs of being gnawed on by an insect of some sort. We're not hung up on insects, per se - however - we can't resist asking ourselves whenever we visit these sites, "what else is there?" The comment about reptiles in fossil trees is also fascinating. Maybe there were salamander-like creatures in the leaves, somewhere.

We are also especially interested in this site because it is the best fossil-site that is driving distance from our home. We also don't want to "over-collect" from a site so we're narrowing our focus on samples that would make a nice object to display, so we're looking more and working harder, but taking fewer samples, hopefully unique and high quality.

[Lloyd]

Dropped in for another visit to the Pennsylvania State Museum in Harrisburg over the weekend. If you haven't been there, they have a great display of what the forest looked like when the fossils were being laid down. It really gives a great persepective on the things you find at St. Clair.

[RickNC]

A club I belong to is making a trip there. I have nothing like these fossils in my collection and we don't have them here. The trip is not convenient, but I think I should do it regardless .

[Plantguy]

This is an invaluable perspective and helps us visualize what was happening there. The more details we learn, the more intrigued we become. Each comment on this thread is a revelation. By the way, Nancy and I are reading a very cool glossy color book called PREHISTORIC LIFE (published by DK) and there is a reference to a neuropteris leaf showing signs of being gnawed on by an insect of some sort. We're not hung up on insects, per se - however - we can't resist asking ourselves whenever we visit these sites, "what else is there?" The comment about reptiles in fossil trees is also fascinating. Maybe there were salamander-like creatures in the leaves, somewhere.

We are also especially interested in this site because it is the best fossil-site that is driving distance from our home. We also don't want to "over-collect" from a site so we're narrowing our focus on samples that would make a nice object to display, so we're looking more and working harder, but taking fewer samples, hopefully unique and high quality.

Great set of fossils! I now have the DK book also and am really impressed with the content, pictures and illustrations of all of the flora and fauna. Always good to look at your specimens for those not so obvious critters. Thanks for the great thread! Regards, Chris

[hitekmastr]

If we use what we see today to explain what may have happened at the St.Clair fern beds, it might go like this. A lowland plain area with heavy to light vegetation gets inundated with muddy flood water from higher ground. The storm event sweeps leaves off high plants into the mud torrent along with air column life, weaker trees and anything else it can carry. The cycle can repeat often with some calmer times, letting forest floor litter build up and other times of more mud than litter. Studying the different layers of shale at St.Clair does certainly allow this model to appear valid.

If one watches the fossils, what is seen is paleosols with Stigmaria rootlets in life positions, fallen tree trunks of various sizes, leaflets, some whole fronds, seeds, places with rip-rap, areas with very little fossils, layers with fern on fern buildup and some coal beds indicating bog areas.

In Joggins, Nova Scotia, reptiles have been found in the trunks of trees. Similar time, similar area and a similar model. After hunting the shales of St. Clair for over ten years, I can't say as I have found any conclusive fossils of insect predidation on the vegetation. I don't think populations were as high as we think. We see insects all around today, but how often do we see an insect carcass lying on the ground? Now take into consideration how may of those insects would get covered by soil and get to be a fossil, the odds drop off dramatically.

I give you my feelings why insects are so hard to find at St. Clair. We do find them there though, to our delight.

This is an exceptionally eloquent description of St. Clair, then and now...your explanation reads like a prose poem, really breathing life into this fascinating time lapse photograph of pre-history.