Plantguy Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Hey Gang, acquired some Alabama USA carboniferous material recently and have this lovely specimen...Seen Ric's gorgeous material in his posts and others about Alabama and am thrilled to have this addition from that part of the country. Have some others to show down the road so if the job dont kill me maybe I'll get around to postin for help with those as well if I find some time.... A couple shots for you of this guy....same specimen--orientation different (diff colors also--I know--still have the edge here on poor lighting/photos...ugh...indoor and natural light shots)....seen some pictures taken recently from the new wife's galaxy phone--she wont miss it, will she, borrow it, hmmm? Anyways, still going thru the labels and trying to match this up with formational names cards and doing research...It's labeled as Lycopodites sp...but in some of my surfing on the web I've run across a Lepidodendron lycopodiodes?? in the literature...Stems on this guy run 3-5mm across. Are we getting back into the issue with assigning different parts of the same plant with differing genus and species names...Any one out there want to share thoughts--I havent found the genus species descriptions yet. Hope the fossil hunting gods have been good to you all! Thanks, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Wow, That's a beauty Chris. Love the detail on that. Unfortunately, I do not know enough about these plants to speak intelligently about what's what with them. Thanks for posting this. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocks Anne Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanK Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Hi Chris! Beautiful Lepidodendron branches with bright dichotomy! Congratulation!! My specimens Edited August 5, 2012 by RomanK Roman http://s1143.photobu.../donbassfossil/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Chris... No wonder your buzzing with that specimen its probably one of the best examples I have seen... Its great to see the arrangment of the twigs over such a large area which is often lacking in nodular specimens...I think your right about different sized leafy shoots...also perhaps the stage of growth when fossilised and other small factors leading to some confusion... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Beautiful specimen! It looks to be some form of lycopodites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hey Gang, acquired some Alabama USA carboniferous material recently and have this lovely specimen... This is a stunning specimen, Chris It is rather like its modern analog: "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Thanks all for the comments and feedback..really appreciate it...does make me stare at the specimen alot looking at the detail...wife thinks I'm nuts, but I'm am a happy nut!... . I'm still trying to dig for more details but these photos look like we are in the ball park. Will shoot a note to the authors for their input on distinguishing features.. ATLAS OF UNION CHAPEL MINE FOSSIL PLANTS DAVID L. DILCHER and TERRY A. LOTT Florida Museum of Natural History, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida 32611-7800, USA Plate 120. Figure 1-4: Lepidodendron lycopodioides Fig. 1 and 2, UCM-P 221, Fig. 2 is an enlargement of Fig. 1; Fig. 3, UCM-P 163; Fig. 4, UCM-P 224. Terminal branches of a Lepidodendron tree showing their elongate nature, dichotomous branching and attached leaves. Regards, Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Reviving an old thread to say "Wow, those are nice fossils, Chris." Very good examples. I just purchased some similar Alabama lepidodendron branches recently but mine were smaller. Also, a question: Are these the small branches at the tips of the big lepidodendron trees or branches of a smaller ground lycopod? Or is the same form genus used for both and there is no good way to tell the difference? Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Reviving an old thread to say "Wow, those are nice fossils, Chris." Very good examples. I just purchased some similar Alabama lepidodendron branches recently but mine were smaller. Also, a question: Are these the small branches at the tips of the big lepidodendron trees or branches of a smaller ground lycopod? Or is the same form genus used for both and there is no good way to tell the difference? Hey Stocksdale. Yes, I like that specimen alot--I was very fortunate to have acquired it. Curiously, in the past year one of the other members had pointed that photos of it had been included in another fossil plant website as an example of the Lycopodites Genus. I guess they liked it! As for distinguishing these two. I tried to get that answer thru the Univ of FL a couple years back and never did get a confirmation and didnt pursue it further. At that time (and maybe Jack can add to this if he sees this thread) I was told the following: Langford 1958 and Lesquereux 1879-1884 note that for Lepidodendron slender twigs with leaves, the leaves have a midrib. For Lycopodites, the slender stems with tiny leaves, the leaves lack a midrib. In Taylor et al. 2009, they do not talk about the differences of the leaves, but only note that you can tell that it is Lycopodites by the scattered sporangia along the stem in association with the leaves, but most Lycopodites consist of only vegetative remains. It may be that the only way to distinguish the two is by epidermal comparison such as stomata type and distribution. So, the specimen I have has such thin stems and leaves that it seems to fit the general Lycopodites description--whether it is still considered a possibly herbaceous plant form I dont know and unfortunately I cant identify any sporangia. It is definitely markedly smaller in size than the other Lepidodendron stems/leaves with midribs that I have. Here are a few examples of larger Lepidodendron leaves that I have from West Virginia. Thanks for looking and comments. I wish I had more for you. Someday I'd like to plan a trip up to Alabama to collect as there is some spectacular material to be had! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the info. I recently bought a few smaller examples from Alabama. Here's one of them. There's also a long lepidodendron leaf (cyperites) among them. Edited December 22, 2014 by Stocksdale Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Wow i'm jealous, NICE FIND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Thanks for the info. I recently bought a few smaller examples from Alabama. Here's one of them. There's also a long lepidodendron leaf (cyperites) among them. Very nice example. Great acquistion! I'm wondering about the Cyperites ID....Any chance it could be a really nice partial bract Lepidostobophyllum...yours appears to have a number of midveins and seems to be tapering a little near both ends? For comparison: leaves and a bract that I also have from Alabama. Regards, Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 As someone who as added to the confusion. I would like to offer the latest thinking (DiMichele, personal communication) on the use of the genus name Lycopodites. This form is now considered the terminal tips of Lepidodendron branches. There is no convincing evidence of small herbaceous lycopsids in the Late Carboniferous. And this is as Chris has noted, they always seem to be missing any fertile structures. Modern herbaceous clubmoss of near identical appearance to the fossil Lycopodites often express fertile structures through the growing season. For now Lycopodites is a convenient name for lepidodendron branch tips. That said, we are always a single fossil away from that changing. Hope this helps, Jack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 As someone who as added to the confusion. I would like to offer the latest thinking (DiMichele, personal communication) on the use of the genus name Lycopodites. This form is now considered the terminal tips of Lepidodendron branches. There is no convincing evidence of small herbaceous lycopsids in the Late Carboniferous. And this is as Chris has noted, they always seem to be missing any fertile structures. Modern herbaceous clubmoss of near identical appearance to the fossil Lycopodites often express fertile structures through the growing season. For now Lycopodites is a convenient name for lepidodendron branch tips. That said, we are always a single fossil away from that changing. Hope this helps, Jack Yep Jack, it does! Thanks for latest! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) I couldn't resist buying one more Lepidodendron branch from the area near Union Chapel Mine in Alabama. It has a nice transition from the more typical lepidodendron leaf cushions to the Lycopodite-type leaves. I plan to use it to create an illustration of the canopy branches. Here's a detail from the lower part clearly showing the leaf cushions. Possibly Lepidodendron obovatum? And some more detail Edited February 8, 2015 by Stocksdale Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) And some more details from the specimen. Edited February 8, 2015 by Stocksdale Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 And some more details from the specimen. detail2.jpg detail3.jpg detail4.jpg I saw that specimen too and was intrigued and considered bidding against you but spent the money on a Vert book to help me with all this Florida stuff I cant seem to figure out. Very nice acquisition! Really stunning specimen. Congrats. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I saw that specimen too and was intrigued and considered bidding against you but spent the money on a Vert book to help me with all this Florida stuff I cant seem to figure out. Very nice acquisition! Really stunning specimen. Congrats. Regards, Chris Thank you Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) I think this specimen of Jack Wittry's that Jack Wittry photographed for the Smithsonian Mazon Creek site looks remarkably similar to the ones from Alabama. Edited February 9, 2015 by Stocksdale Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlehead Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 A quick clarification, all the specimens on the Smithsonian's web site are the best examples of the those housed in the Smithsonian's collection. Most were found by John McLuckie in the 1950's. He was one of the dragline shovel operators for the Peabody Coal Company. A dream job for fossil collectors. Jack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Thanks Jack. I thought I had a small example from Mazon Creek that I had bought somewhere that I hadnt photographed before. I ran across it over the weekend so here you go. The nodule is 7.5cm long and specimen 5.5 cm. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Here's one that the Birmingham Paleontological Society had posted on their site. It is probably from the same Union Chapel location that mine and Chris' came from. It would appear to be the same species showing much more of the thicker branch. Pretty clear evidence of it being part of a tree. Edited February 16, 2015 by Stocksdale 1 Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Here's one that the Birmingham Paleontological Society had posted on their site. It is from the same Union Chapel mine that mine and Chris' likely came from. It would appear to be the same species showing much more of the thicker branch. Pretty clear evidence of it being part of a tree. That's another very fine example showing branching. Thanks for adding it. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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