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Paleontological Preservation Act Hr 554


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the sky is falling! the sky is falling! <running around in circles like a psittabirdfossil with its skull not located>

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Guest solius symbiosus

I have merged these two topics, and they should probably be merged with the previous discussion that we had last fall in order to maintain continuity, and for easy reference.

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I have merged these two topics, and they should probably be merged with the previous discussion that we had last fall in order to maintain continuity, and for easy reference.

we had a discussion last fall? did i say anything stupid?

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This law is really no different than it has been. Most retailers of fossils don't collect on Federal land anyway.

I know dozens of major retailers. None of them collect on Federal land.

The only person this will effect is the idiot that goes out there and collects on Federal land and gets caught doing so.

This law is unenforceable other that that.

It's not much different than HR45 or HB54. Unenforceable.

v = 0.25 * g0.5 * SL1.67 * h-1.17

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Guest solius symbiosus

We have had 6 or 7 threads(maybe more) discussing either the House or the Senate version of this bill since last year. I think that I have included all of the relevant threads into this one. If anyone finds another thread related to this topic, let me know.

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I'm new here so, OK some of this may be over my head. However, I spent 40 years + in a state where restrictive laws did little to nothing to serve the reason for their inception. Fossil sites fell victim to developement reguardless of whether there were verts or inverts or who was collecting them.

This much I know to be true. If the public is unaware of what is around them, then they will not care. A farmer who see's no value in a rare fossil bed will plant crops on top of it. The developer will build houses. I have specimens in my collection that would have been lost forever if I hadn't been there (Some of those pieces I have donated to museums). My point is I have seen it happen.

For that matter, how mny of these sites were discovered by private collectors or other amateurs? If we allow too much restriction, what incentive is there for them to report new discoveries?

The hardest thing to do (as I understand it) is to take a bad law off the books after its been passed. I submit that anyone who thinks this is a good piece of legislation had best take a good hard second look, because once it's passed we all have to live with it.

Be true to the reality you create.

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I'm new here so, OK some of this may be over my head. However, I spent 40 years + in a state where restrictive laws did little to nothing to serve the reason for their inception. Fossil sites fell victim to developement reguardless of whether there were verts or inverts or who was collecting them.

This much I know to be true. If the public is unaware of what is around them, then they will not care. A farmer who see's no value in a rare fossil bed will plant crops on top of it. The developer will build houses. I have specimens in my collection that would have been lost forever if I hadn't been there (Some of those pieces I have donated to museums). My point is I have seen it happen.

For that matter, how mny of these sites were discovered by private collectors or other amateurs? If we allow too much restriction, what incentive is there for them to report new discoveries?

The hardest thing to do (as I understand it) is to take a bad law off the books after its been passed. I submit that anyone who thinks this is a good piece of legislation had best take a good hard second look, because once it's passed we all have to live with it.

This is a good law for amateur collectors. Please take the time to read through the legislation and place it in its proper context. This law is about federal land, land that isn't going to be developed. This has nothing to do with private land or developers. For amateur collectors, it codifies our ability to collect invertebrates and plant fossils on federal land. There is no threat to us in this legislation.

Besides fossils,

I collect roadcuts,

Stream beds,

Winter beaches:

Places of pilgrimage.

Jasper Burns, Fossil Dreams

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well, codifying is good, isn't it? <yelling off camera> hey, auspex! codifying is good, isn't it?!

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well, codifying is good, isn't it? <yelling off camera> hey, auspex! codifying is good, isn't it?!

Well, I remember the Monty Python's Flying Circus skit, but I don't think they were using Cod, and it did not appear to be palliative :P

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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I'm new here so, OK some of this may be over my head. However, I spent 40 years + in a state where restrictive laws did little to nothing to serve the reason for their inception. Fossil sites fell victim to developement reguardless of whether there were verts or inverts or who was collecting them.

This much I know to be true. If the public is unaware of what is around them, then they will not care. A farmer who see's no value in a rare fossil bed will plant crops on top of it. The developer will build houses. I have specimens in my collection that would have been lost forever if I hadn't been there (Some of those pieces I have donated to museums). My point is I have seen it happen.

For that matter, how mny of these sites were discovered by private collectors or other amateurs? If we allow too much restriction, what incentive is there for them to report new discoveries?

The hardest thing to do (as I understand it) is to take a bad law off the books after its been passed. I submit that anyone who thinks this is a good piece of legislation had best take a good hard second look, because once it's passed we all have to live with it.

Frank, Your correct. It's like socialism. In socialism you take away the desire to create, be productive, you get a lazy, no caring, dependent population that thinks they deserve everything.

On the other hand, JB is correct as well. This law doesn't effect us anyway. I have had collections permits through the museum, but most specimens I brought in were collected on private property. (Most on the forum have never been able to collect on Federal land)

I have been working for years with several in congress that are collectors that would like to see this law changed. I think we just need to invite all the idiots on Capital Hill on a fossil dig, to see how neat they are, and how fast they melt away to dust.

v = 0.25 * g0.5 * SL1.67 * h-1.17

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...we just need to invite all the idiots on Capital Hill on a fossil dig, to see how neat they are...

If I can somehow get them all out there, how do I know that you won't just send them back?

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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I think we could all dig a big hole and cover it fast.

v = 0.25 * g0.5 * SL1.67 * h-1.17

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I get what your saying, but I am concerned not as much for this law, but what doors this will open for new legislation and (of course) interpretation. The thing is, rights that we are threatened to lose suddenly, we notice more. But I have seen (paticullarly through my many years in the pet trade and animal rescue) that one law can build on another and eventually things that you would have objected to get slipped in and the general public who is not really that interested will allow this.

I see the need to protect against destructive and greedy professionals (and certain amateurs who need a lesson in curtesy and ethics). Anyone who has read my posts about what is happening at GMR knows this to be the case. I just rankle at the idea of things belonging to the government, because they quiclkly ignore the fact that the government is of the people and supposed to protect the rights of the people. Federal land belongs to the people-NOT the government-unless we have turned into China.

There is also the point that the people that make these laws rarely have an educated background reguarding what they are legislating-instead relying on their people to inform them. A classic example is one senator in Florida who never has kept a pet snake and in fact from his statements is about as ignorant about them and prejudiced as a person can be. Yet, he has used his power to ramrod law after law-each one more restrictive to the rights of reptile keepers (one of the reasons I left florida).

In the end, we cannot forget that we are the only people in the private sector that really care and have the knowledge to make decisions in this area. There are a lot more people that will just hand our rights away as they play their video games and watch cartoons on TV.

So this is not just a matter of what this law says, it is also what kind of Pandora's box we are building.

Be true to the reality you create.

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The shifting-baseline and the slippery-slope; it's how things get away from us over time.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Hello all

I'm a collector from holland and love to plan and carry out fossiltrips with my friends.

this year whe have make plans and well-paid for a ticket to visit California and surch sharkteeth in Bakersfield ,specific Ant Hill.

Can someone give me some explanation of the new law.

do we need to be worried now, it would be a disaster when we found some teeth and get problemes with the customs when we go back home.

hope you can help me.

Cor

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Hello all

I'm a collector from holland and love to plan and carry out fossiltrips with my friends.

this year whe have make plans and well-paid for a ticket to visit California and surch sharkteeth in Bakersfield ,specific Ant Hill.

Can someone give me some explanation of the new law.

do we need to be worried now, it would be a disaster when we found some teeth and get problemes with the customs when we go back home.

hope you can help me.

Cor

It is illegal collect any fossils If Bakersfield/Ant Hill is federal land. You don't need worried if it is a private land, and you have of course land owner's permit.

It is illegal to exchange, transport, export, receive, or offer to exchange, transport, export, or receive any fossil collected on US federal land after this act was passed (effective Mar.30, 2009).

"It seems to me that the natural world is the greatest source of excitement; the greatest source of visual beauty; the greatest source of

intellectual interest. It is the greatest source of so much in life that makes life worth living."

-Sir David Attenborough

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Guest N.AL.hunter
It is illegal collect any fossils If Bakersfield/Ant Hill is federal land. You don't need worried if it is a private land, and you have of course land owner's permit.

It is illegal to exchange, transport, export, receive, or offer to exchange, transport, export, or receive any fossil collected on US federal land after this act was passed (effective Mar.30, 2009).

Didranurus,

With all due respect, this is the second time you have said something incorrect about this new law. Casual Collecting for Personal collections is still allowed on Federal properties that are not specific preserves, like National Parks and National Monuments, just to name two types. So, as long as you only 1. Surface collect, 2. Use only small hand tools, 3. Collect for personal use, you should be OK with collecting common verts like shark teeth or fish teeth, and of course inverts are OK.

So visitors from the Netherlands, you are still safe to collect here as long as you follow the above points. And to get your specimens back home, just mail them or ship them by some postal service like UPS.

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Didranurus,

With all due respect, this is the second time you have said something incorrect about this new law. Casual Collecting for Personal collections is still allowed on Federal properties that are not specific preserves, like National Parks and National Monuments, just to name two types. So, as long as you only 1. Surface collect, 2. Use only small hand tools, 3. Collect for personal use, you should be OK with collecting common verts like shark teeth or fish teeth, and of course inverts are OK.

So visitors from the Netherlands, you are still safe to collect here as long as you follow the above points. And to get your specimens back home, just mail them or ship them by some postal service like UPS.

Ok, Thanks. I only reply what I have read in trilobte2 group.

"It seems to me that the natural world is the greatest source of excitement; the greatest source of visual beauty; the greatest source of

intellectual interest. It is the greatest source of so much in life that makes life worth living."

-Sir David Attenborough

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I think we're kickin a dead dog here.The law is basically the same.

What we need to be worried about is if the Feds try to regulate collecting on private land.

Then we all need to jump on board.

The 7,000 acre private ranch that we have conducted digs on for over 25 years is private land that is surrounded by federal grasslands on one side and State park (Toadstool) on the other side.

The Feds have tried 9 times to take the property by adverse possession or emanate domain, so they can combine it with Toadstool park.

The courts have summarily denied the Feds possession under property rights laws because it does not fall under the guidelines for emanate domain.

The judge also sited (set president) that a property owner has the right to mine his natural resources for gain, as long as it does not cause environmental issues, disturb human Archaeological sites, or disrupt infrastructure necessities.

The Feds have, for years moved markers an average of 100 ft. per year stating that new surveys changed the lines.

Unless the earth is changing its axes, this is done intentionally to incrouch on the property.

Interestingly enough, if one line changes to the east, the other line should change to the east however, it has always offset inwardly to the ranch.

We have had to have a private surveyor re-survey the lines at the land owners expense. And I guarantee, that the lines will get changed again this year.

Bottom line is: If they try to sneak in a bill making it illegal to collect on private land, it is an illegal law.

No one will keep us from collecting on the ranch.

v = 0.25 * g0.5 * SL1.67 * h-1.17

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