Palm Tree Or Hoax?

[Indy]

I rotated and cropped the image Scott posted.

If I didn't know any better (and I don't)

I would swear we are looking at the same log/etching Scott posted

The 1st picture below is a crop of the picture Scott posted

and the 2 below are cropped pictures of the mystery "hoax?"

Pictures taken at a slightly different angle and different time.

The website indicates the "etching" log is in B.C.

and I gather lamarr ... from your avatar ... you live in B.C.

Coincidence ???

Or are we looking at the SAME log ??

Scott

I've been up a long time ...

Were you pointing out this is the same log or were comparing the mystery log

to a similar artifact from the B.C. area? Knowing you ... Mystery solved post

was probably pointing out the picture on the website is the same log.

I probably could have been sawing logs by now !! (pun intended)

Edited December 17, 2012 by Indy

[Wrangellian]

Hmmm, I didn't know there was even a question these photos were of the same item.

The broken pieces look like sandy clay that has been fired (like pottery). The reference to 'rock ovens' suggests there could have been clay/pottery firing going on there at one time.

[Indy]

Hmmm, I didn't know there was even a question these photos were of the same item.

The broken pieces look like sandy clay that has been fired (like pottery). The reference to 'rock ovens' suggests there could have been clay/pottery firing going on there at one time.

I do need to get outside more

Sorry folks ... must have lost my mind

Edited December 17, 2012 by Indy

[snolly50]

Excellent steps toward "What is it?" Indy, that was a clever concept to attempt a comparison of the photos. lamarr, the hammer whacked shards do provide information, but like Wrangellian I see the material as looking "claylike" albeit from your description extremely hard and difficult to fracture. If examination under magnification provides no answer, then perhaps this inquiry should be forwarded to an archaeology forum. I can't imagine a human purpose for the creation and abandonment of such an object. Perhaps someone familiar with the history of the region, ancient and recent, would have some insight. It's fascinating.

[Indy]

If it's on a trail ...

It could have been placed there for interest and conversation.

Obviously, this "log" is no big secret

[itwasntme]

I know it's driving me nuts researching to try to find out. I've looked up engravings, carvings, etchings, engraving artists in bc,native American art, Petroglyphs (rock engravings) in honor of ogopogo, geologic formations, fossils with triangular palm tree like pattern, EVERYTHING I could think of to word it differently to try and get a hit but can't find this design/texture anywhere.

[Indy]

When the made it ...

They broke the mold ... so to speak

Edited December 17, 2012 by Indy

[docdutronc]

quote: " fossils with triangular palm tree like pattern, EVERYTHING I could think of to word it differently to try and get a hit but can't find this design/texture anywhere....."

Hi my friend

This patern is more similar to Araucarias trunk

look these pictures Actual Araucarias ,the leaf are triangular ....

the triangular shapes can be explained by a simple assumption, the leaves are flattened along the trunk during fossilization!!!!

I will open a post on the French fossil forum to seek the advice of plant collectors on the other side of the ocean

Best regards

Bruno

Edited December 17, 2012 by docdutronc

[andreas]

I know it's driving me nuts researching to try to find out. I've looked up engravings, carvings, etchings, engraving artists in bc,native American art, Petroglyphs (rock engravings) in honor of ogopogo, geologic formations, fossils with triangular palm tree like pattern, EVERYTHING I could think of to word it differently to try and get a hit but can't find this design/texture anywhere.

Just think you are a woodcutter and have your camp there. You take your axe, carve radial furrows to divide the outcropping soft stone layer into similar parts and then carv with your axe the triangels. All triangels(the grounds of them) do have a similar angle, the angle of the front part of your axe.

Why do you do this? Maybe you are bored. You camp there since days/weeks...

The stone(I think it is a kind of volcanic stone/tuffit) is soft as we can see on the detail photos.(it did not split, the blow of the hammer was absorbed/the hammer sank into the stone, and so it seems to be hard but it is only tough)

Maybe so it happend.

Edited December 17, 2012 by andreas

[lamarr]

Excellent steps toward "What is it?" Indy, that was a clever concept to attempt a comparison of the photos. lamarr, the hammer whacked shards do provide information, but like Wrangellian I see the material as looking "claylike" albeit from your description extremely hard and difficult to fracture. If examination under magnification provides no answer, then perhaps this inquiry should be forwarded to an archaeology forum. I can't imagine a human purpose for the creation and abandonment of such an object. Perhaps someone familiar with the history of the region, ancient and recent, would have some insight. It's fascinating.

I have researched our local forums as well and have not found any reference to this interesting specimen.I intend to start local foum to find out more. I emailed the Author of the Book- Okanagan Geology- JOHN D GREENHOUGH and he has never seen this as well..He is a founding Professer in Dept Earth Sciences at our local OUC OKANAGAN UNIVERSITY.He is also a member of the Kelowna Geology Committee. We do not have a paleontology expert in Kelowna.

I really appreciate everyones input. I am amazed

[Herb]

I think Indy is right it's the same log. I still do not think it is a fossil, the shapes are too irregular and random. But it IS seriously cool whatever it is?!

[Auspex]

I am having a wonderful time puzzling over this, trying to reconcile what I see in the pictures with...anything!

Thank you for bringing this super mystery to the Forum

[Indy]

https://www.dropbox....gr/0khBlaOVYX#/ TWO REALLY HARD STRIKES WITH ROCK HAMMER

I took the advice and this is what the subject is composed of. This is taken from the small end on the original photo. Just in case its not a hoax maybe someone can get some idea. Hardly looks like clay as when i was handling small dust particles were loosened.

It's probably not typical fired "clay" ...

Looking at the fragments ... doesn't bring fossil wood to mind.

Would be interesting if you could put the fragments in the hands of a local authority

to determine if the fragments represent a man-made material or rock or ???

PS: The local authority very well might know about this specific "log"

featured on the web page Scott posted.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Indy

[AgrilusHunter]

I think Indy is right it's the same log. I still do not think it is a fossil, the shapes are too irregular and random. But it IS seriously cool whatever it is?!

I agree with Herb. I don't think its a fossil, but it sure is cool! Can't wait to hear more about it. Do you have a local historical society? They might have some information.

[Wrangellian]

I was thinking historical society too... see if anyone who knows local history would know anything about the "rock ovens".. that's the clue I think will lead to a solution. To me the material looks too much like fired pottery clay (the gouges and impressions were made when wet, before firing), to be anything else. The only question is who did it, when and why.

[lamarr]

I was thinking historical society too... see if anyone who knows local history would know anything about the "rock ovens".. that's the clue I think will lead to a solution. To me the material looks too much like fired pottery clay (the gouges and impressions were made when wet, before firing), to be anything else. The only question is who did it, when and why.

I will research local Historical Society.

So many thanks for everyones input!!

Now back to search for more of those etchings. I may even find OGOPOGO

Seasons Greetings to all.

[Indy]

I will research local Historical Society.

Suggestion ... if the local Historical Society is not familiar with this artifact...

Inquire there and elsewhere for a local professional authority

to examine the fragments (in person) to determine

if the fragments are man-made or rock or fossil or ??...

along with some pictures.

Finding similar pictures on the Net is fun

However

The "PROOF" to what the material represents is in your hands.

Obviously, this specimen is known to others and probably "well known"

in certain circles. They know the interesting associated story.

Quoting a friend

"Paleo mysteries can be fun, but if not answered they can be exasperating."

By the way ... You are correct in not posting the exact location of this artifact

because our posts are visible to all searching the Net ... If the exact location

of this artifact was known ... Bet ya buck, others would take their rock hammers

there and collect souvenirs.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Indy

[andreas]

I was thinking historical society too... see if anyone who knows local history would know anything about the "rock ovens".. that's the clue I think will lead to a solution. To me the material looks too much like fired pottery clay (the gouges and impressions were made when wet, before firing), to be anything else. The only question is who did it, when and why.

rock ovens, built between 1911-15 by (chinese )railwayworkers of the Kettle Valley Railway http://www.okaccommodations.com/naramata/parks/rock.htm

Andreas

[Indy]

rock ovens, built between 1911-15 by (chinese )railwayworkers of the Kettle Valley Railway http://www.okaccommo.../parks/rock.htm

Andreas

Well ... If this is the case ... things would make sense

The artifact was created "in place" ... clay (if that's what it is) was

molded over an existing elongated outcrop and markings were then

added before it dried. Then a rock oven was built around it (even in sections)

to fire it. Dirt, rock. and forest debris were then added around the ledge (now a log)

to conceal any remaining evidence the artifact was man made.

The top of the log does have a ledge-like flavor...which might not have

been visible when the artist originally stepped back and admired the

completed artwork.

The perpendicular cracks may be just be part of the process and firing

and not created by the artist.

This would also explain why there is a sharp angle at one end

and that would be because the artists continued the art form ...

on the existing outcrop to mask evidence it was formed over this outcrop.

Makes sense to me !!

Man made optical illusion utilizing an existing outcrop

This is not a fossil or a hoax ... It's Paleo Art

Edited December 18, 2012 by Indy

[Wrangellian]

So it might have been made by the Chinese, I think we're getting closer... Still not sure that it was a hoax though, we just don't know the original purpose of the thing.

[snolly50]

The "rock ovens," according to the article, were built to bake bread for the workers. This is obviously a highly practical and needed endeavor. Building a big, clay thing in the woods for no obvious reason is not. Now, following Indy's scenario, he points out a perfectly plausible method to produce a large, clay thingie in situ. I could construct a 20 foot fiberglass dinosaur in my front yard - but why would I? Wait, that's a bad example. Who wouldn't want that? Anyway, we are still faced with many questions. If it is indeed man-made (at this point I do not know that it is), the big question to me remains - why? The article refers to the workers as "Chinese." Assuming the object dates to the time they were in the vicinity (another unknown), does anyone know of a cultural relevance to such a structure? If there were some Chinese characters on it, we would be home free.

Again, analysis of the object's material is critical to know which hypothesis to chase.

This is an interesting exercise. It is fascinating how different members pick up on an idea and pursue it. While no one appears to have come up with a complete explanation, as yet, I believe that this group effort is heading in that direction. It's fascinating.

[Indy]

We all find a mystery fascinating ....

However (in my opinion) the next step should be placing the fragment

physically in the hands or a professional to determine what the fragment

represents ... Clay, mixture of clay and ??, true rock, fossil, ... or what ??

My money is on Paleo Art

Why it was created, who created it, when it was created ... Someone knows.

I'll check back from time to time ... Hoping to see a post with what

a professional said after it was placed in his/her hands to examine.

[snolly50]

We all find a mystery fascinating ....

However (in my opinion) the next step should be placing the fragment

physically in the hands or a professional to determine what the fragment

represents ... Clay, mixture of clay and ??, true rock, fossil, ... or what ??

I absolutely agree. Results of that analysis could dictate the most fruitful path for future inquiry.

[Wrangellian]

I agree also... but I could see it being made either by the Chinese for whatever reason (dragon?) or someone more recently making it as a whimsical art object (ogopogo). So my money is on Ogopogo or Chinese dragon.

BTW the Chinese were brought in late 1800s early 1900s to work on the railroads.

Probably lots of people know the site but knowing how poor the average schmo's powers of observation are when out for a walk/toke/screw this has probably eluded most people's notice until lamarr found it, but now that we have brought attention to it on the Net I hope it doesn't get vandalized.

[itwasntme]

After not being able to find a similar fossil, I was thinking native American art, appears to be or at least used to be several tribes in the area, lots of tribes used the elements, earth, wind, fire, water, if I'm not mistaken I think it was mentioned that silt is in the area and clay, good for sculptures , add a little water and fire and waalaaa, neat engraving. Lots of native American art uses shapes like triangles as the picture does we have been discussing, also the ogopogo as mentioned Used to be referred to as "naitaka", a name given to it by the local tribe Okanakane. Also the nearby cliff overhang could provide some shelter and explain what this piece in question is doing here. I'm not putting anyone else's idea down or saying its wrong (because I have no clue) I was just throwing another idea out there.

Edited December 20, 2012 by itwasntme