Sieves For Conodont Extraction?

[Lmshoemaker]

I know nothing about this topic, so please forgive me for my ignorance.

A few months ago, before heading to my favorite site my stepdad took my on a side route claiming he knew a place that his uncle owned that had a whole lot of shale. He was right, and I picked up a lot of the shale, some new albany (black) shale. This is unfossiliferous, except for conodonts, and perhaps plant spores. I have some dissolving with vinegar, but I know nothing on extracting them after the rock is dissolved, I don't have any sieves, are there any stores that have sieves small enough for conodonts? (I can't internet shop). What do I do once I have sieved the mud, is there any particular way to sort the conodonts from the loose bits of mud, and how do I store conodonts? Bonus points if you can tell me what I can do to study them, I hear they hold a lot of important information in them.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Cryptidsaurian

[Fossildude19]

I would try getting a kitchen strainer - the wire kind with small openings, and a grease splatter shield, ( I think the splatter shield will allow water through it?) and try sifting through the mud with these items. For storage containers, you could use baby jars or some of the small acryllic boxes with the magnifying lid or some riker mounts.

These are things you should be able to find at a hobby/craft store or kitchen supply store.

Will have to pass on the bonus question.

Hope this helps.

Regards

[Acryzona]

Typically you'll need 45 mesh (mesh = openings per inch) to 150 mesh to recover conodonts from a sample. After dissolving with vinegar, wash the sample through sieves with water and allow to air dry. You'll need a microscope (preferably 10- 60 x) to easily view them. Put a bit of dried sample under the scope, and use the tip of a fine wetted paintbrush to pick the microfossils from the sample. There are microfossil slides available online or you can put them in a small vial or plastic bag.

From what I've read, conodonts were globally distributed but many species were restricted in time making them ideal for age comparison of different samples around the world. Also the color of the conodont (amber, dark brown, etc) may indicate how much the rock was heated within the earth's crust from the time that the conodont element was deposited until now.

Welcome to the world of microfossils! Let me know if you have any more questions.

Acryzona

[Herb]

You might want to take a look at my post "how to collect microfossils without breaking the bank"

See below.

Let me know if you find any, I haven't found the conodont zone in the New Albany yet.

[jkfoam]

I read somewhere, years ago, and I wish I could remember the source, that the minerals wavelite and variscite (Aluminum phosphate minerals) found near Mt. Ida, Arkansas, had there origin from the decomposition of Conodonts. Conononts are composed of the mineral Apatite a calcium phosphate mineral. Thus the phosphate in the Conodonts lead to the formation of the wavellite and varisite minerals. I always remind my mineral collecting buddies that they have fossils to thank for some of their mineral specimens. LOL.

Jim

[Lmshoemaker]

You might want to take a look at my post "how to collect microfossils without breaking the bank"

See below.

Let me know if you find any, I haven't found the conodont zone in the New Albany yet.

Awe man, I'm looking for zones now? Hopefully I grabbed enough samples to find a few.

Thank you Acryzona and Fossildude, I'll see if I can find fine enough sieves at wal-mart the next time I go.

[Acryzona]

Cryptidsaurian,

Window screening isn't going to be fine enough - once the seives get down to 100 mesh or finer they look like cloth. Maybe pantyhose or paper coffee filter might work??? Experiment over a bucket - that way you will not lose stuff as you're trying to find a solution. Good luck and keep us updated!

[Fossildude19]

I actually liked Herbs idea of mosquito netting and the embroidery hoop.

The pantyhose angle may work as well.

These are things you can easily find a a Brick and Mortar store.

Good luck!

Regards,

[Lmshoemaker]

Alright, I saw think I have a few ideas on what I'll use for a screen, (leggings, or maybe a pool filter). If those don't work I can still use a coffee filter or a mosquito net. I'm going to check and see if the rock has dissolved any more, 8 hours just got me a few small flakes, looked like fish food in the bag, probably because I didn't properly dry them, hopefully there is going to be a bit more progress.

[Lmshoemaker]

I checked it, the samples have degraded a bit more, not enough for screening, not nearly enough. I've isolated one rock for bleach, to see if that would work, I've heard it can break down shale, but I'm not too sure of that. Hydrogen peroxide oddly has no effect on these rocks.

[Auspex]

Try testing a sample in Varsol (carefully, it is flammable, and effort should be made to limit skin contact).

[Lmshoemaker]

I'll see what I can do, Auspex, thanks!

[Lmshoemaker]

A small update, along with the devonian shale (still not decomposing) I am breaking down ordovician shale I got from a trip last spring, this is reacting much more violently, so hopefully I can get to sifting by tomorrow judging by the current rate.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Cryptidsaurian

[Herb]

You might try a little mechanical breaking and then boil the shale with some dish washer crystals in the pot. Not dish detergent. There are several hundred feet of New Albany shale but most of it is barren. I have found brachiopods in the areas that have pyrite nodules,

Try nylon hose material or no-see-um mesh for the screens. Kitchen strainers are not fine enough. You can also dig out the clay between the limestone layers in the Ordovician strata. It will also contain microfossils. (scolecodonts, ostracods, and conodonts)

Edited January 5, 2013 by Herb

[Lmshoemaker]

Interesting you should mention that, I found one when breaking the shale, I thought it was a brachiopod, I rinsed it to see a ball of pyrite. I think I'll try what you say once I'm done with the ordovician rocks, I have a very primitive setup, and I think doing one at a time would keep me better organized. Just curious, which area (or areas) of the new albany are not barren, just isolated pockets or layers? I'm not sure where this came, but my uncle has some property with some at the base of the formation, and below that are some mildly fossiliferous cherts, I ,may try it after the first batch of new albany.

On a side note, the ordovician rocks are breaking down nicely, not entirely done, but they are starting to get fissile and peel apart into very small layers. I may need to renew the vinegar bleach combo sometime this afternoon.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Cryptidsaurian

[Herb]

igs.indiana.edu/compendium/comp82hw.cfm

This site for the Indiana Geological Survey will give you some good info.

[Al Dente]

I may need to renew the vinegar bleach combo sometime this afternoon.

I hope you aren't mixing these indoors.

[Lmshoemaker]

I hope you aren't mixing these indoors.

Um... I'm going to lie and say no.

... But in all seriousness, I am technically, but the area isn't sealed off from the out side, also I've stopped because progress wasn't evident. I have recently found a friend who I should be able to buy some sieves fine enough for my abrasive powder and conodont extraction, so woohoo....

[Herb]

If you use "no-see-em" mesh it will take out all but the very smallest forams. Should capture most forams, ostracods, conodonts and scolecodonts. Easy sieve to make: 13oz metal coffee can with snap on lid, mesh, and 5" auto muffler clamp. Cut off both ends of can, stretch mesh over end and secure with clamp. Easy- peasy. And you get coffee .