A Bone & A Tooth

[Shellseeker]

Not sure if a toe bone is sufficient to ID the source, but the last time I posted a medial phalanx, it was.

Size: 10mmx16mmx22mm

and a tooth -- looks like a molar, The long root in 22mm The occusal surface is 5mmx13mmx19mm

[RichW9090]

I'll hazard a guess. I'd look at peccary for the toe bone, and I'd look at a tremarctine bear for the molar.

The molar appears to be an upper first molar, and is about the right size for Tremarctos floridanus. The crenulated surface is typical of the tremarctine bears.

Again, without the bones in hand, it's always a guessing game.

Rich

Edited January 8, 2013 by RichW9090

[Cris]

I was also thinking bear on the molar...Not a clue on the bone.

[Shellseeker]

I'll hazard a guess. I'd look at peccary for the toe bone, and I'd look at a tremarctine bear for the molar.

The molar appears to be an upper first molar, and is about the right size for Tremarctos floridanus. The crenulated surface is typical of the tremarctine bears.

Again, without the bones in hand, it's always a guessing game. Rich

Rich,

Seems like you have some expertise here. Thank you. I found this tooth late this afternoon, and immediately said "Black Bear" because I had previously (Nov2011 & Mar2012 photos below) found bear teeth. But , my 2 fossils buddies said No, either tapir or Peccary. I'll have some fun with them.

So, looking for education. How to differentiate Ursus Americanus from Tremarctos floridanus? These are becoming an interesting part of my collection and I would like to ID correctly. SS

[RichW9090]

It can sometimes be difficult with isolated teeth (now, where have I heard that before?), but, in general, there is more crenulation of the enamel surface on unworn tremartine teeth than on those from Ursus. There are probably some differences in size and proportions as well.

Rich

[PrehistoricFlorida]

The phalanx looks to be tapir. I would say Ursus on the tooth due to the high crown.

[Shellseeker]

The phalanx looks to be tapir. I would say Ursus on the tooth due to the high crown.

Thanks Nate. Just checking my terminology. "High crown" means that on the measurement from bottom of root to top of crown, the bottom of the crown, starts very high on the root?

These 3 bear teeth seem relatively small when compared to my human molars -- actually they are about the same size leading me to believe the bears are the height/weight of a human male. From what I have been reading on the net, there were 4 bears in Pleistocene Florida: Ursus Americanus, tremarctos floridanus, Arctodus pristinus, Arctodus simus

Given size of the teeth, it would seem that one of the 1st two is the more likely source with tremarctos being the more prevalent in the Florida Pleisticene.

I will work on tracking down photos of tapir phalanx bones. So far on Peccary, not clear enough photos. SS

[PrehistoricFlorida]

I was referring to the two high crests (bumps) on the enamel that are not typically seen on Tremarctos teeth. Tremarctos molars have a lower profile.