Fossil Guess What This Is?

[Hengky]

Hi All,

If you are researching fossils what is this?....

Regards and Keep the spirit.

[Wrangellian]

It's an echinoid, that's all I can tell you!

[cowsharks]

I agree with Echinoid.

Daryl.

[jpc]

I see it too, buried in the matrix... cool.

[Hengky]

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your comment, I really appreciate it all.

But if you are more carefully and thoroughly again, I think you will see that the fossil is a small snake skeleton fossils that have been petrified, and in the last photo that form a snake skeleton that has been petrified.

Believe it or not, but that's the facts.

Regards,

[THobern]

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your comment, I really appreciate it all.

But if you are more carefully and thoroughly again, I think you will see that the fossil is a small snake skeleton fossils that have been petrified, and in the last photo that form a snake skeleton that has been petrified.

Believe it or not, but that's the facts.

Regards,

No, no it's not. It's a echinoderm showing pentaradially-symmetrical structures.

[Kehbe]

Hengky,

If you thought you already knew what it was, why did you post it in the Fossil I.D. forum? The people replying to your inquiry are knowledgable and educated people that you can rest assured are competent to ID this piece. If they didn't know what it was, I am sure they would say so! Were you looking for confirmation of your I.D. or just wanting to stir things up? I am reminded of a guy that insisted over and over again that his find was a petrified human toe!

[truceburner]

Hengky, if you look more carefully and thoroughly, I think you'll see that you are exhibiting confirmation bias in your interpretation of the specimens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[Ludwigia]

Reminds me of a guy who kept insisting that some concretions from a mesozoic formation were human bones...

[Uncle Siphuncle]

after picking up an estimated 10,000 echinoids from pennsylvanian to pleistocene, i agree with the other members in their opinion of echinoid.

[piranha]

Sometimes I imagine trilobites in the clouds... LINK ...the third example is fossils!

[Missourian]

Echinoid.

[Coco]

Hi,

No possible doubt : it is a SEA URCHIN !

Look at my avatar pic, it is a recent sea urchin from Filipinas called Prionocidaris australis. If I put this pic in avatar, it is because one of my specialities is recent and fossil sea urchins for more than 25 years.

Coco

[Kosmoceras]

It is without doubt an echinoid. 100 percent sure it is not a snake. Have a look at echinoid terminology and look at the similarities. http://www.chalk.dis...terminology.htm

It is not fact that it is snake, again you want it to be snake and your imagination takes it far and beyond. We have people who have seen thousands of them telling you it is one; they know what is and what is not. Snake fossils do not look anything like that. Sorry it is not a snake, but it is a fossil echinoid which is not bad at all.

Just something more - I took the time to look up the geology of your area and it is known as the Bodjong Formation. It is known for its abundance of marine molluscs. I see nothing about birds, snakes, cats or fish in the fauna of stuff to be found. If I were you I would keep looking for invertebrates such as this echinoid you have found and the shells and crabs you have posted before. They are what you are to be looking for, not vertebrates and soft bodied animals.

http://www.ucmp.berk...li/bodjong.html

Best of luck finding these!

Regards,

[AgrilusHunter]

http://www.ucmp.berk...li/bodjong.html

Best of luck finding these!

Those Pliocene crabs are quite nice!

[Hengky]

Hi all,

Greetings of peace before,

I really appreciate my friends in this forum, because we do have to respect each other.

please not to misunderstand this topic, there are some

My reasons are:

1. In this topic I just want to make what I found.

2. To make sure I could be 100% if we say this or that fossils simply by looking at the photo, without testing.

I am also reminded of the famous statement which says that "human ancestors were apes" I guess that's not true.

And in my opinion a place on earth is not just a one-time situation changes in a place,

Perhaps millions of years ago used to be a lake somewhere, but maybe after that thousands of years where the only mainland, so a place to have a changed.

The world is very democratic, but should have a clear basis.

In Indonesia I was trying to examine some of the fossils.

a. Fossil relationship with God (Mystery Fossils)

b. Fossil relationship with humans

c. Fossil relationship with the Universe

d. Fossil relationship with Development

e. Fossil relationship with JIN (Natural Invisibility fossils were hidden)

and others.

And to have the above Fossil skeletons have become a part of limestone and has the end of the tail bone (Position circular). I also have a fossil sea urchins but different shapes and structures.

Sorry if there are mistakes.

Regards,

Hengky

[Kosmoceras]

Yes, it is nice that we have respect. Though some of your material is just a stone with a strange shape, we want you to have correct information about them and we don’t see anything less in you.

Firstly about human ancestors. The fossil evidence does indeed point towards ape ancestors. In fact in some places where they are found, in the bottom layer you find a more ape like skull, and as you go up (forward in time) the skulls change, eventually getting very much like us. I can’t quite remember where this was though, anyone know?

We have also been able to map the sea floor from where continents have moved over time, and fossil evidence can show us where it was connected too. Yes, there was a supercontinent at one point in time as you say.

You won’t find any fossils in relationship to humans where you are sadly, the area was marine and so the only things you will find only lived under the sea during a certain era.

Now we have seen this echinoid, you say you have other so can you post them here too, I would love to see them. They could look different to this one because they are different species.

Regards,

[painshill]

Hi Hengky

No reason why you wouldn’t find hominid fossils in Java but, as Kosmoceras says, not in the marine formation you are currently collecting unless an extremely rare chance find arises from a hominid having drowned in the ocean or a corpse being washed there via a river. The age of the deposits doesn’t rule it out – just that fact that the deposits are marine. One of the world’s most important fossil finds – portions of Java Man (homo erectus erectus) - was made in 1891 at the Trinil site on the banks of the Solo River in East Java, but these are terrestrial deposits. At the time, these were the oldest known hominid remains.

The valley of the Solo River (notably the site at Sangiran in central Java) has subsequently yielded many ancient Hominid fossils, but the Indonesian Cultural Protection Law states that all vertebrate fossils, including hominids, are the property of the government. All discoveries must be reported, all materials must be surrendered, and nothing may leave the country.

As for being descended from apes, strictly speaking we are apes – one of the “great apes” or Hominids (Hominidae) – a group which includes chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orang-utangs and humans as living members. Being more specific, we are Hominins (Hominini) – a group which includes humans and relatives of humans closer than chimpanzees – but we (as homo sapiens) are the only surviving members of that group.

Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species” was much misunderstood and also popularly misinterpreted as “we are descended from monkeys”. But Darwin never said that. His (actually non-original) theory proposed that apes (in the popular sense) and humans had a common ancestor. That’s not the same as “descended from”… more accurately it makes us cousins and that’s still largely what we believe today. The search for a “missing link” is a bit of a misnomer on that basis. A scarcity of transitional fossils perhaps, but not a missing link between us and apes.

Best wishes

Edited January 19, 2013 by painshill

[Kehbe]

Thanks Painshill and Kosmoceras, Very informative and a good read! Thats what I love about this site, I'm always learning! Hengky, as Kosmo said, post up some pictures of the other echinoids you have found! I am anxious to see them I hope you can also post some better pictures of the one in question! I know what you mean about wondering what was marine and what was terrestrial. I have found some material that had flora and fauna in association and it is thought that it was an environment similar to a delta area at the time, so does that mean that we have instance of marine invertabrates and plants living side by side at the same time? Makes me wonder.

Also, I am very interested in what you are studying here!

"a. Fossil relationship with God (Mystery Fossils)

b. Fossil relationship with humans

c. Fossil relationship with the Universe

d. Fossil relationship with Development

e. Fossil relationship with JIN (Natural Invisibility fossils were hidden)

and others."

Can you explain further? What is an example of a fossil relationship with God?

How about the universe? Do you mean meteorites and such?

JIN? Do you mean JINN? Are you talking about the invisible beings created to live alongside humans?

From this webpage http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/jinn.html comes the following...

"Jinn are created from fire whereas the human beings are created from clay. Although they are invisible to human eyes, the jinn can see us. Like human beings they are also entrusted with responsibilities (careers, family life, etc.). They too will be rewarded for their righteousness and will receive punishment for their wickedness."

"Jinn have been given power to change their form and appear in front of human beings in various forms; such as an animal, a reptile, or even a human being. In a hadith from Abu Saeed Khudri , it is believed that a jinn came in the form of a gigantic serpent."

Interesting indeed. Finding a fossil from JINN would be quite remarkable! I am also interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this!

Much Respect!

[Auspex]

...The world is very democratic, but should have a clear basis.

In Indonesia I was trying to examine some of the fossils.

a. Fossil relationship with God (Mystery Fossils)

b. Fossil relationship with humans

c. Fossil relationship with the Universe

d. Fossil relationship with Development

e. Fossil relationship with JIN (Natural Invisibility fossils were hidden)

and others...

This is a very spiritual approach in looking for 'meaning', and, as such, relies heavily on faith, which is fine for matters of faith. Science relies on reproducible results from the study of tangible evidence to yield 'facts'.

Faith cannot disprove science, anymore than science can argue faith. Stephen J. Gould published an essay called "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", which sums up, quite logically, the appropriate relationship between science and faith:

"The magisterium of science covers the empirical realm: what the Universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry (consider, for example, the magisterium of art and the meaning of beauty)."

The futility of argument between the magesteria is beautifully exposed by Gould's careful logic.

Being that The Fossil Forum is primarily a science-based community, this is the magisterium we base our discussions on.

[THobern]

This is a very spiritual approach in looking for 'meaning', and, as such, relies heavily on faith, which is fine for matters of faith. Science relies on reproducible results from the study of tangible evidence to yield 'facts'.

Faith cannot disprove science, anymore than science can argue faith. Stephen J. Gould published an essay called "Non-Overlapping Magisteria", which sums up, quite logically, the appropriate relationship between science and faith:

"The magisterium of science covers the empirical realm: what the Universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry (consider, for example, the magisterium of art and the meaning of beauty)."

The futility of argument between the magesteria is beautifully exposed by Gould's careful logic.

Being that The Fossil Forum is primarily a science-based community, this is the magisterium we base our discussions on.

I've always felt that was one of his weaker essays. I'm not sure if he was trying to rationalise his view or placate the American public, but his conclusions seem forced. He had to redefine Religion and Science in a way that completely ignored their practical overlap. It's normative question as to whether they should overlap, but it's an empirical question as to whether they do.

[Herb]

Sea urchin

[Hengky]

Hi all,

Greetings of peace and prosperity always,

Thank you in advance for your comments friends everything.

I hope all of this into my input on what I have learned so far about the fossils.

In outline or basically, I have delivered in this topic,

1. Whether we can say that these fossils and that by just looking from a photo? ... I sure can not,

but fossils are fairly common and well known people are very easy to say that it is a fossil sea shells or other fossils.

(Quite different look fossil in a photo with a direct view)

Before I learned about fossils until now I have learned a lot in advance about Stone Ring (Precious), including amber stone (which comes from the sap).

I will try to briefly explain what I have said before.

a. Relationship with God or a Mystery Fossil Fossil is a part of the Secrets of God and People still continue to study it.

b. Fossil relationship with the man is trying to learn about the origins of a human life lived in place. (Traces of past life creatures that ever existed on earth)

c. Fossil relationship with the Universe is a process of some kind of disaster (Genesis Nature) that the extinction of creatures in the past, which led to destroyed and preserved the fossils.

d. Building relationships with the fossil is not optimal and balanced search fossil by building in a country that is not possible to find jejal re-trace fossils of extinct and existing penah.

e. Fossil relationship with Jin is As noted by "Kehbe", but I need to underline is that we do not talk about Jin nature, but we are talking about the goods or things of human nature that is hidden by the jin with a particular purpose, hidden items It can be a gold, treasure, fossils, heirloom or any others.

The aim of which is,

1. Jin was the same with the human race who had the pleasure and joy.

2. or misleading as,

a. If we want to take a human or interesting objects hidden by the Jin, we must obey what the condition, a case of providing offerings and some food (This is not allowed by my teachings and is misleading)

b. If the man can have a good or a captured object from nature Jin, will generally believed and made amulets. (This is not allowed by my teachings and is misleading)

All that is not allowed by the doctrine because of misleading because I am. Man should not ask and believe Jin. And man can only ask for and trust in the Lord alone.

But a lot of things and activities in Indonesia with a variety of reasons. This science can be learned by everyone (Studies in Indonesia called Science "Kemat". Following Example one:

http://www.bezoarmustikapearls.com/appointment_authenticity.html

http://www.bezoarmustikapearls.com/fossilized_snakes.html

Just share it:

Intact fossils are widely spread on earth is the head of the reptile both small and large forms that have been petrified.

Why do I say the head, because the head is the organ most violent and powerful than other body parts.

Fossil stone can change the whole structure of the bones, skin and others to 100% stone structure, but still leave the texture and traces that can be learned.

I have a fossil snake head intact as a hand with a little canine teeth out of his mouth and can be clearly seen death due to natural disasters, this is because the section head like no collision so that the skull fracture near his eye. Fossils of snake I got from the limestone mountain during the excavation.

This is one example that was previously dead snakes because of the disasters

Believe it or not back up to us to react and the fact there

May they pleased,

Greetings of peace,

[AgrilusHunter]

Hi Hengky,

Sorry, but none of those 'snakes' in the links you posted are real fossils.

[Kosmoceras]

Firstly, we can identify fossils from photographs posted. If they have the right shape and structure as fossils we find in other places it is easy to identify them to some degree. Yes it is best in person, but on things like this it is like the back of one’s hand, some of the others on the forum find these every trip they make.

I am sorry to say, but the snakes on that link are not fossils, they do not preserve like that and so are just stones with an odd shape or carved. You can see when they light one up it is the same throughout, has no bones, no nothing inside. Means it is not the fossil of a snake.

You need to look up how fossils are preserved. It is exceptionally rare to find soft bodied fossils. These mainly occur in ice, amber and very rare exposures such as the burgess shale. But still, the fossil will be different, most likely crushed a bit, the flesh will have rotted away leaving a skeleton, not the soft scales, skin and organs. In many cases, only odd fragments are found, a tooth, skull fragment but for it all to be there is exceedingly rare, once in a lifetime find. Post a picture of this "snake skull" please. Sometimes skin is preserved, such as in Dakota, USA - dinosaur skin has been found mummified. Your area that you collect is MARINE, if you want to find real fossils, look for invertebrates such as crabs, not whole bodied vertebrates that you resemble animals around you now. The crab you posted earlier is a stunning find, and if more of them turn up it would be great.

Good luck with those!

Regards,