Mantelliceras Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Hi, I bought this fossil but I have doubts if it's real. How can I prove it's fake or not? Here are some photos: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 All I can say is that the shrimp has been enhanced with inc or pencil. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton Jones Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Where did the fossil come from and how much did you pay for it? If it comes from china, it's likely to be at least partially fake, especially given how perfect that shrimp looks. My attempt at creating a museum and community center to help people find an interest in the world around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The fish seems real enough, but the shrimp is extremely suspicious. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose miguel lorente Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) I think the same like kosmoceras, the fish be real the schrim too but the pencil be presen and made the plate very suspicios and comercial to somebody who is not an expert. I think be a comercial plate not collectors Edited January 15, 2013 by jose miguel lorente Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantelliceras Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Yeah I agree that the shrimps looks suspicious... I bought it in spain but I dont know where did they get it... its price was about 133 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 As others have said fish looks real, shrimp mas definately had major portions drawn in, may well be a fake shrimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeloiVarden Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I think color has been added to the body of both the shrimp and the fish... Cool fossil as long as the work was communicated prior to purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adie_uk Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) i would say both are real but I don't like how they have over high lighted the shrimp with pencil or dye? I have fish from the green river formation and they all have dye or some sort of dye to high light them, in some cases painted fins on that were most likely there but no fossil proof on the rock. same with the shrimps I think when found some are faint and hard to see so they paint them in with dye. some people like it others don't. For what you paid it should be real. This one is off ebay look on there to compare. Edited January 15, 2013 by Adie_uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRK Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) You are correct adie! I've done my fair share of prep work in my time, and although the shrimp you show itself is real, even that shrimp looks as if it also has painted/ hilighted appendages and antennae Edited January 16, 2013 by PRK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The gloss on the shrimp looks real, at least. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) I don't know fish very well, but the shrimp looks like the common Cretaceous shrimp from the limestones of Lebanon. If the fish is one of the known species from those same limestones, it would suggest that the combination is correct and likely real. Edited January 15, 2013 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I agree.... authentic shrimp fossil with highlighted details added. Congrats on a great display specimen with a fantastic fossil fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I agree with what people say about it coming from Hajoula, Lebanon. This is one of mine from the Cenomanian of Lebanon. Carpopenaeus callirostris. It has not been touched up (as far as I am aware), if needed as a reference. Two complete shrimps lying nose to tail on matrix. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The gloss on the shrimp looks real, at least. When I enlarge it and squint, I see that whoever applied the shiny finish didn't stay inside the lines that well. I think the shrimp is, at best, a partial carapace. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneman007 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The fish does not have vertebrae present. Highly suspicious. If it is real, it isn't the "good side". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adie_uk Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) think its only missing some verts tail end, think when slabs are split open some verts may have come off in the other section....makes me wander...do they prep both halfs of the slab? normally 1 half with the bones and the other half the impression (maybe a few bones too) preb both = 2 fossil slabs from 1 fish? also, if you get the chance in shop to look at a few fish on slabs look on the back you sometimes see un prepared fish, some do have a natural colour others are like ghosts . Edited January 15, 2013 by Adie_uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I agree with the others regarding the shrimp. The fish looks to have had some enhancement with color added to the dorsal and caudal fins.the skull and spinal column actually look pretty legit with minimal or no restoration. The preservation is fairly typical for these Lebanese Cretaceous fish. These fossils actually fluoresce quite nicely so you may want to check it out with a fluorescent bulb in a dark room. I have found the reaction to be more subtle than one will see in green river material, but it is a useful test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeriderdon Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 This may come as a surprise, but that shrimp has been touched up. I know, I know, it is a shock, but it's true. The fish may have had a bit here and there as well. Nice piece though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It is pretty common to see these shrimps with an added outline... probably because the original fossil is not complete, but this makes it look complete. I disapprove, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 It is pretty common to see these shrimps with an added outline... probably because the original fossil is not complete, but this makes it look complete. I disapprove, but that's just me. It's not just you. One could draw a shrimp on a bar napkin, and it wouldn't be much different.... well, that may be just me. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down under fossil hunter Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) lol, I purchased a very similar fossil plate when I was in Spain about 10 years ago. I was a bit of a novice back then and in my teenage wisdom snapped it up. A decade later and I am the proud owner of a very enhanced Lebanese shrimp and to add insult to injury my girlfriend at the time having no knowledge of fossils said to me "That prawn looks like someone has just drawn it on with a pencil". Oh well, you live and you learn. Edited January 16, 2013 by Down under fossil hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantelliceras Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Yeah, I guess the fossil ir real, both the fish and the shrimp but it has been "enhanced" with some color or whatever... Personally I would like it natural, without any dye, but still a nice fossil. Here you can have a closer look to the shrimp. Also I noticed that the fossil was broken in two pieces and then reattached (if you look at the tail of the fish you can see that the crack is really hard to notice because it has been painted with the some color of the fish). Thank you all for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asteroceras Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Nearly all of the fish I see for sale at shows are inked in, or have some element of ink used in the presentation of the fossil. I think it just comes from people wanting money fast, a lot of the Green River fish I see are inked, it looks, but i can't be certain that they have been blasted with an air abrasive, all the bone and skin has been removed, what you end up with is an impression on the plate rather than any actual fossil material and it is this that is inked in and sold to the public as a 'fossil fish specimen'. Regarding your specimen, just looking at the images, it is clear to see that the shrimp is penciled in (as stated by many here) The fish does look to be inked, in places. Mainly just on the fins. These are a few I prepped before Christmas, These are the first Green River fish that I have prepped. No ink was used just air abrasive and a paraloid coating. Although the paraloid does colour the rock giving the fish a better outline, Is this the same as inking? Edited January 23, 2013 by Asteroceras Progress of my fossil cleaning can be found on my Instagram feed http://instagram.com/gbfossils YouTube for fossil collecting and prep videos https://www.youtube.com/user/GBFossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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