Is This Ammolite Reasonably Valued?

[AJ Plai]

Hi, any ammolite expert or enthusiast out there who can help

me take a look at this specimen I am thinking of purchasing

and share some opinions would be appreciated before I make

my decision whether to buy it or not from my dealer please.

The specimen came split into 2 pieces but the 2 pieces fit nicely

into one another - I kinda like the look of its 2 halves to be honest

though I have no idea whether if this is considered a good or a bad

thing for a fossil specimen. The specimen had a minor repair on one

part; the spectrum of colors look to be complete when I turn it around

a bit. The ammolite is about the size of my hand (the piece is probably

about 15-17 cm in circumference). The specimen also has registration

number by the Canadian government so it seems legit and legal.

I may be able to get this ammolite for about $1,500 (USA $), do you guys

think that this is a reasonable value?

Thx very much guys!

[AJ Plai]

Here are some more pics of the specimen showing the ammolite

in my hand and its backside:

[Terry Dactyll]

I cant comment really I dont know he value of this... Not wanting to point out the obvious but have you done an internet search for comparisons of prices of a similar size and grade...

[old dead things]

I know the ammolite ammonites are expensive and the price doesn't surprise me. However, I wouldn't give $1500 for a broken one. I'd rather have a small complete one. It just doesn't seem right to sell a broken one for that much.............that being said, I have sold broken ammonites, and have always told customers they have been repaired, but usually they are for significantly less than a complete one. So, have you priced an unbroken ammolite ammonite?

Jim

Old Dead Things

[Kosmoceras]

It is only worth what people are willing to pay. Would you be happy to pay that much for it? To me it is worth little as I don't collect things like that, but others might adore things like it and be wiling to pay a lot for one.

Regards,

[AJ Plai]

I have been doing some research on other online retailers as well.

Most ammolite fossils that are complete about similar size seem to

sell for several thousands dollar and some large ones might even get

to 5 figures....

The ones in matrix of comparable size but probably more complete in

quality goes for the range of $10,000-$15,000

The ones out of the matrix from the same website go for the range of

$7,000 - $10,000

These are from www.ammolite.us (no idea whether if they are reasonably priced

or not...)

Another website that sell ammolite I found is www.indiana9fossils.com

and from browsing the online catalogue - $1,500 would get me a small

section of a specimen. Any complete specimen featured on that website

tend to much larger in size (16 inches+) and would not be less than

5 figures...

At www.gemrockauctions.com - a complete ammolite aprox 50% larger

than the one I posted is priced at $14,000

On Ebay, an ammolite about twice the size is priced at $44,000

So it seems from my price research, at a budget of less $2,000 wouldn't be

able to get me a complete ammolite at all, but rather a small section of it.

So it seems from my limited knowledge and research this seems to indicate

that the $1,500 looks to be a decent buy, but I don't want to trust my

judgement without listening to some third party input and perspectives first

since I might be missing something due to my lack of experience in ammolite

valuation.

Edited January 18, 2013 by AJ Plai

[AJ Plai]

Anyway thx for all your input! Its great to hear from perspectives of people who may not

be keen on ammolite collecting to reflect on its value as well. So thx again.

[Wrangellian]

I have no idea on the value either (and I agree with Jim - I would prefer a small complete one, but of course I'm a fossil collector, not a jeweller) I guess the prices normally reflect what the market will bear, but on the other hand I keep seeing (especially on ebay) sellers like to put extravagant prices on their items either because they have an inflated idea of the their value or just to see if they can take advantage of naive but wealthy people who assume that's a normal price because they don't do their homework.

Long story short, if you have done your homework and shopped around and this seems a reasonable price, then go ahead on it!

[AJ Plai]

I think the complexity of ammolite lies in the fact that its both an ammonite fossil and a certified precious gem that you can only acquired from one place

in the world. So my guess is the prices could be based from the valuation from a fossil collector's perspective or from a precious gemstone collector &

jeweler perspectives at the same time - and this gives me a lot of headache when it comes to trying to gauge its value.

It seems that from a jeweller's perspective the price seem like a steal (if someone with expertise in ammolite could help me confirm this hypothesis that would be great..)

but from a fossil collectors perspective, not so much. For me, the $1,500 is one of the most expensive budget I will probably ever spend on a specimen, so I have to be

quite critical about making the purchase decision and have to admit I am a little biased towards ammolite, so my judgement could be clouded by my personal bias and

lack of expereince in ammolite gem... That's why I would like a 3rd party perspective on the matter to help me out. Truth be told, to my knowledge, this is probably the only

ammolite dealer I can deal with directly without the risk associated with online purchase; i.e. I can get to look and scrutinize the stuff, and if the dealer happens to be a conor commit fraud, pretty much the whole fossil community here would probably know in the next day (it's a very small community here in Thailand...) so from that perspective

I don't see much incentive for the dealer to try to con me with a bad purchase - the risk of loosing reputation seem too severe to not be honest...

I will meditate on it for a week or two before making my decision. Hopefully, if any ammolite expert out there happens to stumble upon this post and share some knowledge

- that would be great for me. But still thx for all the input guys!!

[painshill]

Hi AJ

There was some discussion about ammolite on another thread where I made some comments. I was in two minds about whether to contribute here, but find myself unable to resist. What follows are personal opinions.

You last post hits the nail on the head. These spectacular fossils are being exploited in the gem market by clever marketing and that has forced the price up to a level which is unrealistic for a fossil specimen because the gem trade uses a different scale of values. The high price relies in part on the beauty of the material, but also on claimed rarity and exclusivity. Lots of stuff about unique location… one of only three new gemstones in the last 50 years… rarest gemstone in the world… certificates of authenticity and so on.

Ammolite was given “gemstone” status in 1981 by the CIBJO (Confédération Internationale de la Bijouterie, Joaillerie et OrfèvrerieCommission), also known as the World Jewellery Confederation. Inevitably what followed was a grading system to elevate the price of the best material even further. There is no official CIBJO-recognised grading system for ammolite, but many vendors use a classification that goes AA/A+/A/A- and is based on assessment of colour, iridescence, chromatic shift and optical rotation. I would ask yourself if you really understand the difference these things make to the attractiveness of the material or agree with the impact that they have on asking price. That is, does this kind of grading sit comfortably with your perception of the value of the material?

You could make exactly the same criticisms about other gemstones. Are flawless pure white diamonds really worth the premium they command over those with minor inclusions and discolouration? Can anyone apart from an expert really tell the difference? Would you really care if it were not for the aggressive marketing and control of the supply exerted by the diamond industry? Many people would still say “yes”. I wouldn’t, but that’s a personal decision.

Contrary to popular belief (reinforced by the marketing campaigns of the vendors of this material) ammolite is not a “unique location” fossil/mineral, although it comes principally from the Upper Cretaceous Bearpaw Formation which extends eastwards from Alberta to Saskatchewan in Canada and southwards to Montana in the USA.

But the name "ammolite" wasn’t trademarked. Ammolite has a variable composition which may include aragonite, calcite, silica, or pyrite with typical trace elements of aluminum, barium, chromium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, silicon, strontium, titanium or vanadium. In terms of a definition, it’s an anomalous fossil aragonite pseudomorph with a particular signature of impurities creating characteristic iridescence and that means anything from anywhere which meets the definition could legitimately be called ammolite.

It may well be that the Bearpaw Formation has the “nicest” material, but it’s not an exclusive locality. Material is being surface collected in Utah and sold as ammolite for example. Similar material has been available much more cheaply from Madagascar for many years and there are also deposits in the Austrian Tyrol where the material is known as Lumachelle, Helmintholite, or in consolidated form as “Fire Marble”.

At the end of the day, there’s a personal decision to be made about what you are prepared to pay. But I would be as cautious about price versus grading and value comparisons as I would if I were buying a diamond, sapphire, opal or any other gemstone.

There’s some general information here, which may or may not be helpful:

http://www.gemsociety.org/info/gems/ammolite.htm

[lordpiney]

I dont think $1500 is too high on this specimen, it's got quite a bit of the blue color that brings the highest resale value. while it is broken, it still can be prepped further to remove all that mudstone off the backside of it. after further prep, it could be worth considerably more than your buying price.

[AJ Plai]

Thx Painshill, your info and perspective are very valuable and much appreciated!

Also, thx Lordpiney for helping identifying the potential value of this specimen! Just

curious to know more, so if this specimen gets the mudstone off (I am assuming its

the dull brown section like the pics I attach in this post) and glue the pieces into one

it will be considered to be better in value?

From what I have heard, my understanding is that restoration tend to devalue the

fossil specimen in most cases - with the exception of some ultra rare "broken" specimen

like some dinosaur fossil species.

Also, I have heard that some specimens that come with positives-negatives (I believe

that's what it's called, but correct me if I am wrong...) matrix halves that can fit to one another

like a jigsaw are usually valued more highly than one without? Is that true? And would this

specimen fit that description due to the still attached mudstone parts?

I am asking this since I assume that it would likely be better if this specimen is further prepped

and get the mudstone off, though I was under the impression (whether correct or not..) that the

mudstone parts of this specimen may contribute to its uniqueness and should be left like it is?

Thx very much for your replies.

Edited January 21, 2013 by AJ Plai

[AJ Plai]

Many hours of my last few nights have been occupied by browsing through

the internet to find all the guides and info about Ammolite and collecting tips

& guides and have managed to compile quite a few notable guides that I have

found to be very useful in addition to some of the inputs here on the forum.

I think it would be a good idea and also beneficial to share the information

for other beginners who may be interested in or are collecting this particular

fossil/gem. I can understand the tedious research process to get a better

understanding before buying a particular specimen so I would like to ensure that

my time spent doing the research could be of use for others as well.

So here are what I have found so far, please feel free to add more if anyone else

have good links or info to recommend:

Ammolite: Ammonite Fossil Gemstone:

- contain a good basic overview of what to look for as well as how to care and shopping tips

http://www.gemstonesadvisor.com/ammolite/

Ammolite Ebay buying guide:

http://reviews.ebay.com/THE-AMMOLITE-BUYER-apos-S-GUIDE?ugid=10000000001144659

Ammolite Guide:

- this one has a rather comprehensive guide from basic understanding, buying, grading to

lores and holistic beliefs about ammolite as well

http://www.espyjewelry.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/6442

Will add more if I found more good ones!

[samsiam]

So...did you buy it ?........which shopnin thailand ? ...is it fortune town ?

[-Andy-]

I think that price is reasonable. If faced with this, I may or may not buy it depending on my budget and mood, but I'd definitely consider it.

In Singapore, I can buy a slightly larger complete ammolite(both ends as well) at 780 USD, but it has almost no colours or iridescence to it.

[Sinopaleus]

AJPhai, in my opinion, it is pretty reasonably priced Blue, turquoise, purple and green are the rarer colors, so the price would go up as more of those colors are present

[JohnJ]

( Chronology notice - the original posts are almost 3 years old.)

[Ridgehiker]

Ha...I once gave our local zoo some fossils for the education program. Included was a 40 cm diameter similar beastie with lots of ammolite colour. It must have been out on a table for 15 years for people to spray with water, turn in the light, etc. A few years back they put it in a back room when someone told them how much it was worth.

Re the value. 'In general' ammolite is like most sought after metals, gemstones, etc. Not at all rare in Nature. It is the cost of developing a mine and bringing it market. The group that does it here in Alberta is very ethical and does a good job mining them and protecting the surrounding environment. There isn't any willy hilly excavating to get at the best specimens and anything unusual is shared with researchers.

[samsiam]

I know 3 years old...just wondering as i bought a few from a dealer in bangkok

[AJ Plai]

Yes I did buy the specimen. It's definitely my favorite ammonite specimen in my collection. And yes, SamSiam I did buy it from the shop in Fortune Town.

[samsiam]

Yes I did buy the specimen. It's definitely my favorite ammonite specimen in my collection. And yes, SamSiam I did buy it from the shop in Fortune Town.

nice...i bought 2 of the canadian ammolites from him...around 90/100k each....i bought 1 of the fire red Madagascar ones also for around 10k from memory....i love them, spectacular they are and to think they once swam with dinosaurs and now look like opals, precious stones....amazing

[AJ Plai]

They certainly are treasures from the prehistoric ocean that I consider to be akin to work of art made by mother nature. Once you start collecting and appreciating them, it's hard to stop for sure.