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PetrolPete

Id Needed For Some Oklahoma Concretion Fossils

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PetrolPete

These concretions are Pennsylvanian in age and were found in the somewhere in the Senora formation- oswego- fort scott boundary in north eastern oklahoma.

A picture for scale:

post-8113-0-02061400-1358662125_thumb.jpg

Possibly a jaw of some kind, but no idea of what:

post-8113-0-11536200-1358662140_thumb.jpg

Some kind of bone, also no idea as to what it's from:

post-8113-0-24468400-1358662201_thumb.jpg

And no idea at all on this one:

post-8113-0-34338700-1358662136_thumb.jpg

Any and all help in IDing what these fossils came from/are, is greatly appreciated. Thank in advance.

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Missourian

I can't help with id's, but those are some nice pieces. The first close-up specimen has some intriguing details. Could you get closer in on it?

In Kansas City, we find similar nodules from the Muncie Creek Shale. Like with your deposit, we come across many different types of bones. We gleefully collect them, but with a few exceptions, we have no idea of the owners.

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Auspex

Not the run-of-the-mill nodules! Is there a faunal list for the formation?

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Roz

Yes, could you get closer up for the other pics as well? Maybe take the pics outside for better

lighting. I would love to see them closer... :popcorn:

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AgrilusHunter

Hi Pete,

Those are some great finds! I'll be interested to hear what comes of the indentifications. That first one does have some interesting serrations that look like teeth! Very cool.

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PetrolPete

I'll work on trying to get better pictures and I'll throw in a couple other interesting concretions as well. As for the faunal list, there might be one somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. Unfortunately, the OKGS bulletins don't have searchable text so it takes a while to look through them all.

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PetrolPete

Here are two of the three concretions from earlier (I'm still working on the jaw, due to its shape it's hard to get it in the right light)

post-8113-0-94641400-1358809893_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-76886100-1358809904_thumb.jpg

Here is a bone I found at the same location, it had already weathered out of its concretion when I found it:

post-8113-0-26542700-1358809911_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-50096300-1358809917_thumb.jpg

And here is what a professor of mine I believe ID'd as a pelecypod:

post-8113-0-48728400-1358809923_thumb.jpg

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PetrolPete

here is another concretion fossil, no idea on this one:

post-8113-0-74621300-1358810207_thumb.jpg

For the possible formations I listed and for a moderately nearby location, the only faunal list I've been able to find was for the senora formation and can be found here:http://www.ogs.ou.edu/pubsscanned/BULLETINS/Bulletin70mm.pdf

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PetrolPete

Ok, I got a better picture of the jaw:

post-8113-0-37156200-1358830688_thumb.jpg

let me know if a better/different picture of anything might help with a possible ID.

Thanks again

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PetrolPete

After doing a lot of research, I've still been unable to find a complete faunal list with vertebrates (usually they stop at invertabrates) of any of the pennsylvanian formations around here, but I do know from a professor that there has been some evidence of fish, reptiles, amphibians and conodonts around oklahoma during that time. So I was wondering if anyone would be able to confirm or reject the possibility of the jaw being from any of these?

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CH4ShotCaller

Very nice! The concretions from your locale are varied; each having something different. I'll certainly be watching future posts of your pics and finds!!

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Roz

I am sorry, Pete, I can't tell.. Do you have a loupe? If so on the possible jaw, you could

place the loupe flush with your camera and get a really close up pic...

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PetrolPete

I am sorry, Pete, I can't tell.. Do you have a loupe? If so on the possible jaw, you could

place the loupe flush with your camera and get a really close up pic...

I have a x16 loupe, would that work? and in that case, what would you recommend for the lighting on it?

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Roz

I have a x16 loupe, would that work? and in that case, what would you recommend for the lighting on it?

Mine is 10 but 16 should work.. You will be able to tell when you take the images.. I take the pics outside

and they turn out pretty well..

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PetrolPete

I don't know how well these turned out, It was a little difficult to work with the shape of the concretion so I think one side is a little distorted

Positive side:

post-8113-0-69026300-1359064147_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-61154000-1359064158_thumb.jpg

Negative Side:

post-8113-0-54567500-1359064167_thumb.jpg

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Missourian

It looks like your cam-loupe combo is working fairly well. When I'm doing it with my microscope, I'll take several photo (10 to 20), so at least one or two will likely be perfectly focused.

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AgrilusHunter

Hi Pete,

Your new images are very good. Much clearer. I'm not sure on your specimen though, that is very different stuff that what I find in nodules in Indiana. I'll be interested to see what others think.

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AgrilusHunter

Hmmm ... I wonder if what you have is a portion of the carapace from a Xiphosurid. It looks different from the Euproops I've seen around here or from Mazon, but from where you are collecting who knows. The reason I say this is I don't see a lot of differentiation between the teeth/spines and the rest of the fossil. Just a thought any way.

Edited by AgrilusHunter

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Roz

Much improved images but I still cannot tell exactly what I am looking at...

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fossiladdict

Is the yellow area around the teeth actually enamel?

post-4072-0-58270000-1359084274_thumb.jpg

post-4072-0-32576700-1359084280_thumb.jpg

Edited by fossiladdict

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PetrolPete

Is the yellow area around the teeth actually enamel?

It's possible, I'll try and clean up the other teeth and see if anything shows up

Hmmm ... I wonder if what you have is a portion of the carapace from a Xiphosurid. If looks different from the Euproops I've seen around here or from Mazon, but from where you are collecting who knows. The reason I say this is I don't see a lot of differentiation between the teeth/spines and the rest of the fossil. Just a thought any way.

I had been toying with the idea of it being other things like a spine (not as in backbone) of some organism, but I hadn't thought of a Xiphosurid before. I know they existed during the same time period, but I have not come across any mention of them in any literature I've looked at for this region, but it is an idea I'll try to explore

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Missourian

What other identifiable fossils have turned up in the nodules?

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PetrolPete

What other identifiable fossils have turned up in the nodules?

From this area the only things I've been able to identify from the concretions clearly are some orbi's (one was articulate), goniatites, possibly some ammonids, some pelecypods , and what look like some other types of shells. Everything else is just some type of bone, possibly a scale/plate or just unknown. Most of the nodules didn't even have anything in them, they just fall apart once they open and others have a weird, small, spongy center. There is a good chance that some might come from different formations though, the location is lake side and has eroded in a way that there is a beach covered in the concretions

Edited by PetrolPete

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AgrilusHunter

... the location is lake side and has eroded in a way that there is a beach covered in the concretions ...

Beaches and pennsylvanian nodules you say. Hang on, I'll be there shortly ...

Seriously though, I think fossiladdicts question is the right one. If that yellow stuff is enamel then you know for sure it's a jaw. If not it could be something else. I was thinking more of the edge of the carapace not the spine.

Edited by AgrilusHunter

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PetrolPete

Beaches and pennsylvanian nodules you say. Hang on, I'll be there shortly ...

Well, you never know what might wash up on the beaches....

like stigmaria, pet wood,and a trilo pydigium hiding near the quarter:

post-8113-0-21472800-1359089072_thumb.jpg

Coral?:

post-8113-0-41604600-1359089095_thumb.jpg

post-8113-0-10062000-1359089168_thumb.jpg

goniatite:

post-8113-0-32279000-1359089085_thumb.jpg

Edited by PetrolPete

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