ExDementia Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hey guys, Just bought this set of Trilobites as a gift. There are two halves which split the tree in half horizontally. Not sure if this was on purpose or not, but it seems to be unique -- whether that's a good thing or not. To be honest, I know very little about fossils, but what I was told is that this would usually be fairly expensive, but was damaged in transit, so I got it for seems like a steal. The damage doesn't bother me, because it doesn't touch the fossils. They are each about the size of a man's hand outstretched. From my research, I found that since I can't see the tops of them, I can't really identify them properly myself. I can't tell what their eyes look like, if they have spikes, etc. From what I found, they look most like Proetida or Ptychopariida, but then after looking into those more, I found that those usually only reach 3-6cm on average, while the ones I have are closer to 20cm. So then I was thinking they might be Asaphida, but they don't have the large flat Pygidium that seems typical for them. Now I'm thinking they might be Corynexochida due to their Cephalon shape and the small spikes protruding from the pleural lobes, but of course, since I can't see the tops, this is still hard. I really only have a few hours of research to go on, I'm sure there are some with much more experience in here. Any ideas? Thanks guys! P.S. Anyone know about how much a piece like this would go for undamaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRK Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 There ya go!!, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 This looks a little fishy to me. Have you got any close up pictures of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Trilobites are not my field but the first thing you must find out is how much is real and how much is painted. take photos of each one with the opposite side adjacent. As I can see some varences between the two halves unless it is just the angle or amount exposed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExDementia Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 This looks a little fishy to me. Have you got any close up pictures of it? Here's it with the two halves together and separated so you can see how they fit together: Individuals of "bottom" half: "Top" half: Size reference: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
araucaria1959 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I suggest Cambropallas. But I'm no expert and cannot say how much is real and what is not. araucaria1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 The trilos do not line up exactly which would suggest to me that this is a composite that did not origininally appear together. We need a really good close up of some portions of a single trilo and the area right around the edge of the trilo where it meets the matrix to get a better idea of how much of it is real. Unfortunately these types of plates are notorious for being being fake or are generally at best a composite that has been heavily restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 If they were just split apart why is there so much chisel action going on. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExDementia Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 So I've been doing a bit of research on fakes. I no longer think that these are split in half, that seems very improbable. I'm thinking that if the are real, the "top" side is just the imprint from the fossils, but I've never seen anything like this online. So what I've found is that these large specimens from Morocco are very sought after, and therefore faked often. Also, I've never seen them in a group like this. There are some very obvious tool marks on the "top" side, and a few on the "bottom" side. But I really don't know if that is indicative of being faked, or of just being cleaned out. I'm feeling pretty skeptical. More pictures to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExDementia Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) After more research, I have determined that these are indeed fake. This was a learning experience. Basically, finding three specimens like this are called mass mortality pieces, and indicate that they all had to have died together at the same time. Very improbable. From what I've read, specimens this large are not very common and are very valuable, this is why they are so often faked. This page shows similar pieces: http://www.fossilmus...-trilobites.htm I really wish I had done more research going into it, but I really needed a present as it was a last minute thing. I'm taking it back to the shop I bought it from tomorrow and I'm pretty confident that the guy who sold it to me will give me my money back. He runs a pretty wide variety shop and doesn't deal all that much in fossils, so I think he was duped as much as I was. He and his shop have been around forever and seem to be pretty well respected. Edited February 11, 2013 by ExDementia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 You have bought a slab, done your research well and found out it was not genuine. Now you are trying to source it back and get your money back. - Exactly the right thing to do, I see great potential with you and fossils. Well done for doing all the detective work yourself! Best of luck sending it back. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) The trilos are cool looking though. If the slab was real and just split open I do not think it would have shown so much work, except to cover up the fake. Edited February 11, 2013 by Herb "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhw Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Pretty typical Moroccan composite. They kinda both look like positives to me, but hard to tell from the photos? There might be SOME actually fossil material in there! If you didn't pay too much, why sweat it, they're still kinda cool looking display pieces. I'd call them Andalusianas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The first red flag for me is the lack of randomness in the grouping; this suggests they were posed. The matrix is certainly fabricated, as the 'matched' positive and negative are heavily tooled (needless in a genuine pos/neg split). There may be some actual trilobite material there, but is seems more art than actual overall. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExDementia Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thanks for the replies, guys. I brought them back to the guy who sold them to me long with some printouts of the articles I've researched and pictures of similar pieces. He gave me my money back no problems and took it as a lesson learned. Like I said, he doesn't normally deal in this sort of thing, so I hold no hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhw Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Just curious. How much were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExDementia Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 It ended up being around $400 out the door -- which, given what I know now is much more than I would like to admit. He was loured into the same trap I was in that because the piece was damaged, it was a steal at that price. Not sure how much he payed for it originally, though. Thanks for the help, guys! Learn from my mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrobento Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Years ago i also bought a fake (partially reconstructed) Paradoxides from Marocco. The right pleural lobe was much wider than the left. Its still a nice piece, my wife takes it to school to show the kids the main features of a trilobite fossil. One thing you have to be carefull with Marocco trilobites is the obvious unusual matrix assemblies, with multiple organisms on them. Check this website for further notes about this: http://www.paleodirect.com/faketrilobites1.htm Pedro Pedro Bento, M.Sci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 $400, ouch! You're lucky to get your money back. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I would like to commend you on how well you took the news that these were fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taj Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I've got a piece ( Cambropallas sp) which I can reasonnably believe as authentic.. Here is how it looks positive negative and the outside with coarse chisel marks to decrease the overall size of the nodule . This fossil was also damaged during transport ( ahead of the cephalon), but it did not affect the fossil. The one difference being that happened in the plane , inside my backpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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