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My 2013 Tucson Trip


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I haven't seen much said about the Tucson shows that ended this past weekend on the forum so here is a report on what I saw during the days I was there.

I landed in Tucson Tuesday night Jan 29. I had heard a few dealers were already selling with more opening on Wednesay. I ran into Pat McCarthy at the airport.


The next day, I visited friends at the Ramada and the Hotel Tucson City Center (many people, including me, still call it "the Innsuites" out of old habit). I talked to fellow Forum member isurus90064 for a while. A week before, he had not been sure he would be able to go but he made the trip.

I saw some interesting shark teeth including a set of 15 juvenile megalodon from several east coast localities (Lee Creek, Bone Valley, Murfreesboro, and SC rivers). Over the years, the dealer had been throwing them in one-at-a-time to sweeten deals with a certain customer. Recently, that customer dealt them back to him as a lot. I don't know if he ended up selling it - nice looking group (various colors).

The dealer also had a baby meg from the STH Bonebed on a piece of matrix with the tooth kind of a yellow-tan
color. He also had an upper lateral STH meg on a small piece of matrix.

One of the things I wanted to check at the show was the price range for hybodont spines. Another friend had been curious about the going rate for Heterodontus fin spines. With so few ever for sale, I figured hybodont spine values would at least provide a base price. I saw incomplete-but-decent spines from Morocco as low as $15 each but most were in the $25-40 range with one essentially-complete specimen offered at $120.

I was also wondering what "shark-bitten" bones or pathologic bones were going for these days. I saw a couple around $25,.

I noticed that several nice Notidanodon (large Hexanchus relative of the Cretaceous-Paleocene) teeth were available and was present when a couple of collectors purchased a few. They still run about $25 for an upper anterolateral and $50-100 for a nice lower anterolateral.

Gene Hartstein walked up to me in Moussa's room (mostly Moroccan stuff). Gene is a shark tooth collector whom I met when I was a member of MAPS back in the late 80's-90's. It was great talking to him and I mentioned the MAPS EXPO I attended at which he brought a big load of Biggsville, Illinois teeth (Mississippian age stuff he had collected at a temporary exposure) back in 1994 or 1995. He recalled trading with me when I was a "kid." I guess I was in my mid-20's then. I think 20-somethings are kids now too.

While I was looking at all the Moroccan stuff, a small group of guys were talking amongst themselves about what they were seeing in the room. It was apparent that they were paleontologists because they were quickly identifying even rather fragmentary fish and reptile remains and they used more technical terms than the average collector. They were looking for dinosaur and oddball croc material from the Kem-Kem beds but they also set aside a big Globidens tooth from the phosphates.

Friday morning, I had a sore throat and went downhill from there, feeling really bad by the late afternoon. I spent much of that day just sitting.

I was flat on my back with the flu Saturday, the first day of the show, and was out-of-action Sunday and Monday but was starting to feel better Sunday. I wasn't that congested but was very weak and had no appetite with headaches in the morning. I had some body aches but I had been sicker with the flu before so I counted myself lucky. I was eating just pineapple from the hotel's breakfast buffet for a couple of days but drank a lot of fruit juice and water.

I felt well enough to go back to the shows on Tuesday. Of course, being away the first weekend meant I missed out on seeing a lot of great stuff.

One of my friends from Japan had left "get well" gifts for me with another friend. They are three "Aquatales" mini- models. The same company (Kaiyodo) that made the little Chocolasaurs prehistoric animal models also made numerous other sets. The Aquatales are all modern marine organisms. He had given me a couple in the past and I bought a few as well. The ones he gave me this time were a whitetip, a hammerhead, and a whale shark. They are very high-quality/detailed.

One of the dealers had a Squalicorax falcatus skeleton from the Niobrara. There were several associated teeth, a vertebral column that extended to the upper lobe of the tail, and some cartilage from the fins. He also had his usual assortment of Niobrara shark teeth (Cretoxyrhina, Ptychodus, Squalicorax).

A dealer in one of the tents behind the Innsuites specialized in those Cretaceous fossils (fishes, crustaceans, etc.) from Lebanon. In fact, he is a member of the family that owns a quarry there. He showed me a small shark specimen that still had teeth with it - visible with magnification. I couldn't identify the teeth which seemed too
broad-crowned for a scyliorhinid (but it could have been one of those). I wondered if it was a baby Squalicorax. He showed me a copy of a book co-written by family members. It had a lot of great photos and I considered buying it. One of the photos was of a Cretodus tooth.

Another ballroom dealer had some Late Eocene teeth from Morocco including a number of small Carcharocles
sokolowi and a few larger ones but none of them were priced. I wasn't really interested in buying one so I didn't ask for the range. He had some of the smaller species (Galeocerdo eaglesomi, I. praecursor, S. koerti, etc.) too.

On Wednesday I returned to the Ramada to see dealers I had not seen open the week before. A friend had something to show me. He started unwrapping some teeth as he recalled that I had sent him an article years before about a shark he had not heard of previously. The teeth belonged to Cardabiodon, a rare Cretaceous shark (one of the larger lamniforms). He started unwrapping more teeth including matrix and cartilage chunks that had teeth in their jaw positions. He had some vertebrae too. He had found a partial skeleton with much of the dentition. He figures more teeth are within the chunks so he is going to carefully clean it all. I assumed it was from a secret site on a ranch he has access to. There will probably be a paper on his find sometime in the future.

Later, I wandered around the Innsuites and struck gold. After the first weekend, a paleontologist had set up a table with two boxes of publications for sale. He used to do SEM photography and thought he would try unloading some
duplicate articles he had collected over the decades. A lot of it was AMNH stuff but there were some oddball pubs in there too and it was all very inexpensive (some papers only $1 and a lot of great old stuff for $2-5). I went through some of it and noticed most of them were on fossil mammals, including Eocene stuff. I asked if he had any shark papers. He said he had only a couple. Unfortunately, I had only enough time to leaf through about 10% of it before having to get back to help a friend. I picked out and bought a handful of articles.

Later that day, I went back to look through the boxes of articles again but one of the French dealers, a guy who likes mammals, was there and he had set aside a big stack already. I flipped through the box I had started before
and continued to find more good stuff. Over the next few days, I went back to make sure I didn't miss anything really interesting. In the end I went home with my own flatfull of stuff.

Thinking about publications, I visited Black Hills' sales area in one corner of the Innsuites ballroom. They are one of the few dealers with a lot of books. I was hoping they would have a copy of Cappetta's update to the Handbook on Mesozoic and Cenozoic chondrichthyans but they didn't.

I bought two small Early Eocene teeth from Morocco. The dealer had marked both teeth (each about 1/2" long) as "symphyseals" and I did identify one of them as that (an Otodus) but thought the other might be an Otodus baby tooth. It has the "Parotodus look" some of us have talked about in another thread.

I also considered buying a nice Dalpiazia (Cretaceous sawfish) rostral spine in matrix but was low on cash by that point and ended up passing on it. You go through money quick at the Tucson shows. I wasn't sure if I had a loose specimen already, but after getting back home, a search through my Moroccan collection did not turn up one.

One day, I took a close look at a Xiphactinus skull in matrix. It had a couple of Squalicorax falcatus teeth around the edges. I noticed one of the teeth was unusually large for the species and even went to the trouble of measuring it. It was an inch along its greatest dimension. The dealer said it was the largest he had found.

In case anyone is interested in celebrity sightings, I saw Steven Seagal one day at the show. He was talking with a couple of dealers.

On my way to the airport, I stopped at the Electric Park to buy some prep supplies (Kent's Tools) and visit some friends.

Getting the flu kept me from seeing who-knows-what - probably missed out on a cool tooth or two. I visited the Congress Street tent only once and rather briefly and never did get over to the Fossil Co-op. I heard there were fewer dealers over there. Those two little symphyseal teeth and some horn corals were the only fossils I took home. I picked up some interesting papers so it was worth going to the show.just for those and to see old friends.

Jess






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Thanks for the first-hand account! I've never been to a major fossil show, and you make it sound like I need to.

Is there ever much avian material offered there?

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Sounds like you had yourself an eventful fishing trip bro! I ran into Seagal in Tucson back in 98 and the vendor told him to wait until we had done with our deal. He didn't like it much and the dealer (from the Netherlands) didn't know who he was and he didn't care. I told him he was a movie star and he said " I don't care he is rude". I felt like a big shot that day! I get sick every year when Im in Tucson. Its that dry air. Hope you had fun!!!!!!

Mikey

Many times I've wondered how much there is to know.  
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Do you remember the dealer in the Fossil Co-Op who always had the wonderful Myotragus material from Mallorca? Apparently he died just before the show began, a couple of days beforehe was to leave for the States. Someone had to pack up all his stuff and send it back home to him. Shame - he always had some very nice material. I was looking to get another skull this year.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".

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Jason,

Yeah, the flu messed me up but at least it was only for a few days. Some people were down for a week.

I don't have any pictures. Many dealers don't allow photography because thieves would send an advance team to take pictures and then they would target dealers with desirable material. Also, I have a phone almost as old as some of the fossils (doesn't have a camera). I can ask around and see if someone will forward me some of theirs.

Jess

Sorry about the flu, nasty strains this year. Any pictures from the show?

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NIce report. Bummer you got sick,, but I'm glad you made it to Kent's Tools That was one of my biggest discoveries when I went to the Tucson show.

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There has been a nasty flu going around here. Though it has tapered off the last month, the show is a breeding ground for cold/flu. Sorry you were so sick.

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Chas.,

You should make the trip sometime. You will find bird stuff but you have to look through flats or look inside every little fold-up box and you should always ask anyone who looks like they have a variety of material. Sometimes, dealers have flats/boxes under the tables or in closets if they have a room.

I realize I neglected to report the bird bones seen. One dealer had a rather large beak (maybe 2 inches long) on matrix from a tar pit site (McKittrick or Maricopa, I think). He said a friend who was a "bird guy" identified it as a parrot beak but I'm pretty sure it was an owl. It was rather deeply hooked so it looked like a parrot beak. I think the central-southern California climates of that time (Late Pleistocene) were too cool for parrots but several species of owls are known from the tar sites. They are all rather rare based on what I have seen in private collections and what I have read.

A friend looked at it and he later agreed that it looked more like an owl too.

One of the Moroccan dealers (Moussa) had some bird bone ends from the Moroccan phosphates. I saw at least two distal ends of tarsometatarsi in it.

A dealer who was not at the show sometimes brings Late Pleistocene bird bones (many identified as crow) from Mallorca.

Jess

Thanks for the first-hand account! I've never been to a major fossil show, and you make it sound like I need to.

Is there ever much avian material offered there?

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JP,

Yeah, I had to get home as work was piling up but I made sure I had some time to look at stuff at Kent's Tools. You can't beat the variety (prep tools, storage containers, display items, etc.) and the prices are good.

Jess

NIce report. Bummer you got sick,, but I'm glad you made it to Kent's Tools That was one of my biggest discoveries when I went to the Tucson show.

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RichW9090,

Yes, that is Geert Niboer, a Dutch dealer (Primigenius Fossils) I have known maybe 25 years. I heard that there were no dealer spaces available where Geert set up but did not hear that he had passed away. That is very sad news. I didn't see him but I thought it was just because I missed him while was sick. I checked his website and there is no mention of his passing.

Yes, that Myotragus material was very interesting - an oddball mammal for sure. He used to bring several bones of that along with rodent jaws, shrew jaws, and bird bones from the same site. He and his wife also wandered around later in the show to buy material to take home. He was very knowledgeable about mammals including weird Eocene stuff.

I'm sorry I missed meeting you at the show. Did you go more than one day?

Jess

Do you remember the dealer in the Fossil Co-Op who always had the wonderful Myotragus material from Mallorca? Apparently he died just before the show began, a couple of days beforehe was to leave for the States. Someone had to pack up all his stuff and send it back home to him. Shame - he always had some very nice material. I was looking to get another skull this year.

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Jess, I was in and out - since I live in Tucson, I would stop now and then for an hour or two.

Rich

The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".

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Show was great, we did the last week, yes lots of people with flue even then. I will when I recup from just getting back and catch up with things left undone while gone may post my sampling of pictures I took, I also have a few others garnered from others on FB I might add as I was too busy sometimes to take pictures and go on as we were also buying for our business.

russ

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