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Pennsylvanian Fish Bone


Missourian

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These are occasionally found in phosphatic concretions of the Pennsylvanian Muncie Creek Shale in the Kansas City metro (bone #1):

 

post-6808-0-72330900-1367744893_thumb.jpg

 

I call them 'chicken bones' :) , but they are most likely from a fish.

 

Here's another one that broke cleanly from the concretion (bone #2):

 

post-6808-0-64476900-1367744887_thumb.jpg

 

The bilateral symmetry makes me think they are part of a dorsal or ventral fin:

 

post-6808-0-21658500-1367744890_thumb.jpg

 

As they are quite distinct in appearance, I'm hoping someone here can help me put a name to them.

Context is critical.

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WOW !!

Way outside my area of expertise, however, just based on the size alone...

amphibian came to mind. Regardless...Outstanding find and hopefully

someone here will recognize this bone.

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A rather large bone, yes? Size alone might narrow down the list of possible candidates.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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I was thinking that it was a bit on the robust size for fish,... maybe tetrapod.

Or crossopterygian, if fish...
Looks like a clavicle,, or part of a pectoral or shoulder girdle?
Cool, whatever it is..
Regards,

Edited by Fossildude19

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Fantastic, a non-fish Paleozoic bone...I would be doing the happy dance if I ever found something like that. Really cool!

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Yes ... Possibly tetrapod

Rib fragment from a Pennsylvanian locality here in MO: Link

That looks very similar if not the exact same bone. I've seen that specimen on your site before, but I hadn't made the connection.

Context is critical.

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Hi Mitch

What's starting to "bug me" is that I've seen 2 or 3 fragments

like this before at the Lake Neosho Pennsylvanian locality here

in Missouri and didn't collect it...Now I understand what they

represent.

TFF_24_zps57be1de3.jpg

Maybe I did save one? Most of the collection is boxed up

because I will be moving soon. Made a note to look for this

shape when I unpack.

Edit

If I lived close to your Muncie Creek Shale locality ...

You wouldn't find many phosphatic concretions

because I would have lived on the site and
vacuumed them up !!

:D

Edited by Indy

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On 5/5/2013 at 6:06 PM, Indy said:

If I lived close to your Muncie Creek Shale locality ...

You wouldn't find many phosphatic concretions

because I would have lived on the site and

vacuumed them up !!

:D

 

I think that happens anyway. That's probably why I have a lack of Muncie Creek material to show in the 'Fossil Hunting Trips' area. :)

Context is critical.

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Hi Mitch

What's starting to "bug me" is that I've seen 2 or 3 fragments

like this before at the Lake Neosho Pennsylvanian locality here

in Missouri and didn't collect it...Now I understand what they

represent.

Maybe I did save one? Most of the collection is boxed up

because I will be moving soon. Made a note to look for this

shape when I unpack.

Knowing your rigorous and thorough approach to collecting, I think it's a safe bet they are packed away with the rest of your fossils. :)

Context is critical.

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On 5/5/2013 at 8:05 AM, Fossildude19 said:

I was thinking that it was a bit on the robust size for fish,... maybe tetrapod.

Or crossopterygian, if fish...

Looks like a clavicle,, or part of a pectoral or shoulder girdle?

Cool, whatever it is..

Regards,

 

I believe crossopterygians have been found in the Pennsylvanian black shales in the area. I may have to poke around the journals to see if anything pops up.

 

I would be thrilled if they turned out to be tetrapod bones, but they would seem out of place in the depositional environment (assuming the theoretical interpretation is correct), and they are so.... common.

Context is critical.

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This particular type of bone is illustrated in a publication on local KC fossils:

post-6808-0-66365000-1367829933_thumb.jpg

The caption states: "... bone from an unknown vertebrate, possibly an early small reptile...." I would certainly be happy with that id, but it very well may have been made after a cursory glance at the partial bone.

The publication is "Rocks and Fossils of the Central United States, with Special Emphasis on the Greater Kansas City Area" by Richard J. Gentile. Yeah, the title is a bit long winded. :) Link: http://paleo.ku.edu/rocksandfossils/

Edited by Missourian
  • I found this Informative 1

Context is critical.

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Yes ... Possibly tetrapod

Rib fragment from a Pennsylvanian locality here in MO: Link

Hi Barry I think you nailed it here is picture from google search look at the ribs I think its a good match

post-6560-0-66280300-1367833556_thumb.jpg

"A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all'

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This particular type of bone is illustrated in a publication on local KC fossils:

attachicon.gif5384-publication-Muncie-bone.jpg

The caption states: "... bone from an unknown vertebrate, possibly an early small reptile...." I would certainly be happy with that id, but it very well may have been made after a cursory glance at the partial bone.

The publication is "Rocks and Fossils of the Central United States, with Special Emphasis on the Greater Kansas City Area" by Richard J. Gentile. Yeah, the title is a bit long winded. :) Link: http://paleo.ku.edu/rocksandfossils/

Mitch

I remember having a long discussion with Richard Gentile

when Norm King and I did a poster presentation at the GSA

in KC back in 2003 Link

Remember Richard Gentile and I discussing the role armatures

play regarding undescribed and mis-identified fossils.

I suggest you have in your collection a number of fossils which

may very well be undescribed as well as seldom seen before.

Not to speak of mis-identified because the studied specimen

was incomplete or poorly preserved.

Your archives here on The Fossil Forum are a treasure trove

not only for amateurs ... but also for professionals.

Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)
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Wow! Very cool fossil! I'm going to have to pick up more nodules when I'm on the other side of the state next time!

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Really cool! I feel as though I should go find the Muncie creek shale that outcrops in Tulsa and check its concretions before I move.

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On 5/6/2013 at 10:01 AM, PetrolPete said:

Really cool! I feel as though I should go find the Muncie creek shale that outcrops in Tulsa and check its concretions before I move.

 

It would be interesting to compare specimens separated by a couple hundred miles.

Context is critical.

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To me, the rounded blade-like end appears to have been part of a hinge-type joint.

Context is critical.

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I managed to relocate a third specimen stored away in the collection (bone #3):

 

post-6808-0-52269000-1367905712_thumb.jpg

 

This one is missing a bit of the blade-like end, but the other side is more complete.

Context is critical.

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On 5/6/2013 at 10:07 PM, PetrolPete said:

Well I found the outcrops here: http://www.ogs.ou.edu/StatemapOGQ/OGQ-80_Wekiwa_24K.pdf

The muncie creek is part of the Iola fm in Tulsa. Now I just have to figure out the best way to get there...

 

Nice geo map. I see many familiar unit names, but the lithology is vastly different. I hope the Muncie turns up some nodules that far south.

Context is critical.

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Nice geo map. I see many familiar unit names, but the lithology is vastly different. I hope the Muncie turns up some nodules that far south.

According to the Tulsa County stratigraphic chart it does have phosphatic nodules, and it says it contains many of the same fossils as I've seen you post, but I'll have to see what I can find.

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