Missourian Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 These are occasionally found in phosphatic concretions of the Pennsylvanian Muncie Creek Shale in the Kansas City metro (bone #1): I call them 'chicken bones' , but they are most likely from a fish. Here's another one that broke cleanly from the concretion (bone #2): The bilateral symmetry makes me think they are part of a dorsal or ventral fin: As they are quite distinct in appearance, I'm hoping someone here can help me put a name to them. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 WOW !! Way outside my area of expertise, however, just based on the size alone... amphibian came to mind. Regardless...Outstanding find and hopefully someone here will recognize this bone. Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 A rather large bone, yes? Size alone might narrow down the list of possible candidates. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 That is too cool! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) I was thinking that it was a bit on the robust size for fish,... maybe tetrapod. Or crossopterygian, if fish...Looks like a clavicle,, or part of a pectoral or shoulder girdle?Cool, whatever it is..Regards, Edited May 5, 2013 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Yes ... Possibly tetrapod Rib fragment from a Pennsylvanian locality here in MO: Link Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Jim Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Fantastic, a non-fish Paleozoic bone...I would be doing the happy dance if I ever found something like that. Really cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Yes ... Possibly tetrapod Rib fragment from a Pennsylvanian locality here in MO: Link That looks very similar if not the exact same bone. I've seen that specimen on your site before, but I hadn't made the connection. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) Hi Mitch What's starting to "bug me" is that I've seen 2 or 3 fragments like this before at the Lake Neosho Pennsylvanian locality here in Missouri and didn't collect it...Now I understand what they represent. Maybe I did save one? Most of the collection is boxed up because I will be moving soon. Made a note to look for this shape when I unpack. Edit If I lived close to your Muncie Creek Shale locality ... You wouldn't find many phosphatic concretions because I would have lived on the site andvacuumed them up !! Edited May 5, 2013 by Indy Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lissa318 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Congrats Missourian! What fabulous finds. Excited for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 On 5/5/2013 at 6:06 PM, Indy said: If I lived close to your Muncie Creek Shale locality ... You wouldn't find many phosphatic concretions because I would have lived on the site and vacuumed them up !! I think that happens anyway. That's probably why I have a lack of Muncie Creek material to show in the 'Fossil Hunting Trips' area. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 Hi Mitch What's starting to "bug me" is that I've seen 2 or 3 fragments like this before at the Lake Neosho Pennsylvanian locality here in Missouri and didn't collect it...Now I understand what they represent. Maybe I did save one? Most of the collection is boxed up because I will be moving soon. Made a note to look for this shape when I unpack. Knowing your rigorous and thorough approach to collecting, I think it's a safe bet they are packed away with the rest of your fossils. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 On 5/5/2013 at 8:05 AM, Fossildude19 said: I was thinking that it was a bit on the robust size for fish,... maybe tetrapod. Or crossopterygian, if fish... Looks like a clavicle,, or part of a pectoral or shoulder girdle? Cool, whatever it is.. Regards, I believe crossopterygians have been found in the Pennsylvanian black shales in the area. I may have to poke around the journals to see if anything pops up. I would be thrilled if they turned out to be tetrapod bones, but they would seem out of place in the depositional environment (assuming the theoretical interpretation is correct), and they are so.... common. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Very interesting bone! Please keep us updated.. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) This particular type of bone is illustrated in a publication on local KC fossils: The caption states: "... bone from an unknown vertebrate, possibly an early small reptile...." I would certainly be happy with that id, but it very well may have been made after a cursory glance at the partial bone. The publication is "Rocks and Fossils of the Central United States, with Special Emphasis on the Greater Kansas City Area" by Richard J. Gentile. Yeah, the title is a bit long winded. Link: http://paleo.ku.edu/rocksandfossils/ Edited May 6, 2013 by Missourian 1 Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmerlin Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yes ... Possibly tetrapod Rib fragment from a Pennsylvanian locality here in MO: Link Hi Barry I think you nailed it here is picture from google search look at the ribs I think its a good match "A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 This particular type of bone is illustrated in a publication on local KC fossils: 5384-publication-Muncie-bone.jpg The caption states: "... bone from an unknown vertebrate, possibly an early small reptile...." I would certainly be happy with that id, but it very well may have been made after a cursory glance at the partial bone. The publication is "Rocks and Fossils of the Central United States, with Special Emphasis on the Greater Kansas City Area" by Richard J. Gentile. Yeah, the title is a bit long winded. Link: http://paleo.ku.edu/rocksandfossils/ Mitch I remember having a long discussion with Richard Gentile when Norm King and I did a poster presentation at the GSA in KC back in 2003 Link Remember Richard Gentile and I discussing the role armatures play regarding undescribed and mis-identified fossils. I suggest you have in your collection a number of fossils which may very well be undescribed as well as seldom seen before. Not to speak of mis-identified because the studied specimen was incomplete or poorly preserved. Your archives here on The Fossil Forum are a treasure trove not only for amateurs ... but also for professionals. Flash from the Past (Show Us Your Fossils)MAPS Fossil Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Wow! Very cool fossil! I'm going to have to pick up more nodules when I'm on the other side of the state next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Really cool! I feel as though I should go find the Muncie creek shale that outcrops in Tulsa and check its concretions before I move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 On 5/6/2013 at 10:01 AM, PetrolPete said: Really cool! I feel as though I should go find the Muncie creek shale that outcrops in Tulsa and check its concretions before I move. It would be interesting to compare specimens separated by a couple hundred miles. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 To me, the rounded blade-like end appears to have been part of a hinge-type joint. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 It would be interesting to compare specimens separated by a couple hundred miles. Well I found the outcrops here: http://www.ogs.ou.edu/StatemapOGQ/OGQ-80_Wekiwa_24K.pdf The muncie creek is part of the Iola fm in Tulsa. Now I just have to figure out the best way to get there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 I managed to relocate a third specimen stored away in the collection (bone #3): This one is missing a bit of the blade-like end, but the other side is more complete. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 On 5/6/2013 at 10:07 PM, PetrolPete said: Well I found the outcrops here: http://www.ogs.ou.edu/StatemapOGQ/OGQ-80_Wekiwa_24K.pdf The muncie creek is part of the Iola fm in Tulsa. Now I just have to figure out the best way to get there... Nice geo map. I see many familiar unit names, but the lithology is vastly different. I hope the Muncie turns up some nodules that far south. Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrolPete Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Nice geo map. I see many familiar unit names, but the lithology is vastly different. I hope the Muncie turns up some nodules that far south. According to the Tulsa County stratigraphic chart it does have phosphatic nodules, and it says it contains many of the same fossils as I've seen you post, but I'll have to see what I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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