Odd Shark Tooth From Alabama, Shark Tooth Creek

[AmazoniteJosh]

Hi, New member here. Just wanted to see if I could get an official identification of this odd shark/ray tooth that we found at Sharktooth creek in Aliceville, AL. The "guide/owner" said this was some kind of a molar or grinding tooth from a Ray/Shark hybrid. Can anyone help add a little more clarification. Thanks

[Auspex]

It is from a Ptychodus, a Cretaceous 'shell-crusher' shark. I can see where the 'hybrid shark-ray' idea could come out of that.

[zachj]

would love to see what else you found on your trip!

[sixgill pete]

Indeed a Ptychodus as Auspex said, and a very nice one!!!

[AmazoniteJosh]

Thanks for the ID! It's a lot easier to discover more about the tooth, when we have the official name to look up.

Here's the best of the teeth we were able to keep, (you're only able to keep 15 teeth per person), found some very large lemon shark teeth too! It's a really cool place, there are lots of good sized teeth everywhere but you're limited to an hour or two of searching on each trip which costs about $25 per person. I won a t-shirt for finding the most teeth that day!

[Uncle Siphuncle]

Your fossiling skills are quite impressive, Josh. I'm glad you had such a productive hunt!

[non-remanié]

never heard of this site, but the faunal mix looks odd.... supposedly in the mooreville chalk, but apparently there also must be a neogene lag. i wouldnt be surprised if they were seeding it...

[AmazoniteJosh]

Hmm, not sure, thats a little over my head! I didn't get the impression they seed the area, but it could be possible. The mix of fragment teeth and whole teeth seemed about the same as other locations we've hunted. It is definitely a fossil producing site, but it may be enhanced. We talked to the owner quite a while. Apparently the Geology dept from Univ. of Alabama identified the location and took classes there for years before the owner had the idea to turn it into a business. Their website is pretty cruddy, but it may give a few more details. Just search for sharktooth creek, Alabama.

[FossilDAWG]

I've collected from creeks in the immediate vicinity of the commercial Shark Tooth Creek site. The teeth are largely from a lag at the Mooreville/Eutah (Tombigbee Sand) contact, though material must also come from the rest of the Mooreville as well. These are Late Cretaceous formations. Ptychodus mortoni is not uncommon, other Ptychodus species are rare or essentially nonexistant. A view of the top of your specimen would help to confirm the ID.

I agree that the mix of species is highly suspicious, and it suggests salting of the creek with shark teeth from elsewhere. Certainly there is no local site to produce tiger sharks. My collections contain many Scaphanorhynchus texanus, Cretalamna appendiculata, Squalicorax, and some Ptychodus mortoni and Cretoxyrhina mantelli, and no Paleogene or Neogene forms.

Don

[MikeR]

This was a site that the Birmingham Paleontological Society used to visit however from what I was told, the owner then began to salt the creek to develop revenue.

Edited July 16, 2013 by MikeR

[erose]

At $25 for a few hours and a limited number of teeth I would question the expenditure if you get serious about fossils. $25 worth of gas can probably get you to some better and free locations.

But with all that said the Ptychodus tooth is mighty tasty.

[ckmerlin]

very nice find welcome to the forum

[Uncle Siphuncle]

Hard to imagine salting with Ptychodus...doesn't take many to exceed $25.

[cowsharks]

Hard to imagine salting with Ptychodus...doesn't take many to exceed $25.

FossilDAWG indicated that the Ptychodus are one of the species that seems to be native to the creek. Therefore, it might be the other species (cacharhinus, tigers, etc.) that the owner is buying in bulk and then using to seed the creek. Just a guess though. It is also one reason why there is a limit on the number of teeth that you can keep. If the site produced an abundance of teeth, why limit the number per person? Seems like the owner might want to protect his investment.

[Auspex]

On one hand, the excitement of the treasure hunt is enhanced if everyone is successful (including those with no prior experience). On the other hand, importing teeth from the wrong geological period is, to me, wrong.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

agreed... manipulating the fossil record = scientific dishonesty.

[FossilDAWG]

Thanks MikeR, I hadn't heard that so directly put before, but it makes sense. I visited with a BPS trip 4 or 5 years ago, and I didn't know why they had stopped going there.

"Salting" makes sense if you are thinking only of the commercial venture side of things. With heavy collecting pressure the indigenous fossils will get depleted; salting ensures there are some teeth to be found. Mostly the target market is kids and families looking for a fun educational experience, and it's not a good business model for them to leave empty handed. Who knows how many future paleontologists, or at least fossil collectors, are started by a handful of shark teeth from an Alabama stream?

The thing is, there should be some mechanism to indicate to the more scientifically aware that not all the finds are local in origin. From the photo in the fifth post, it seems to me that at least half the teeth are "salt". That could be really confusing to anyone who cares to identify their teeth, learn more about the local geology, etc. Not to mention anyone else downstream who starts picking up tigers instead of crows without knowing about the reason for the out of place finds. I'd hate to think of someone spending a lot of time trying to locate a Miocene outlier in the area, thinking they were on to a "big discovery".

Don

[Auspex]

50 years from now, when no one is around who remembers, some geologist is going to make a confusing discovery...

The practice is well established at some of the pay-to-search mineral 'mines', where you buy a bucket of matrix to go through. Some of these enterprises fortify the buckets, to ensure happy (and repeat) customers.

[AmazoniteJosh]

Not questioning your theory, but how are you determining that half of the teeth are salted? Is it the species that is out of place or the color? If so what are the telltale signs? Just trying to learn.

Speaking of species, I know the 2 at the bottom right are Ptychodus, I'm assuming the 2 at the lower left are Tiger sharks. For the rest, we're guessing Sand tiger 1st row; Lemon 2nd row; and not sure about the 3rd full row. Which of these don't belong in that area? thanks

[Auspex]

The geology of the area is far too old for the cacharhinus, tigers, & etc. to occur naturally. The Ptychodus belongs, and is a super find all by itself!

[FossilDAWG]

In the top row, several of the teeth could be goblin shark, Scaphanorhynchus texanus. Anterior teeth are strongly striated (fine ridges running almost the length of the blade), lack cusps or have weak cusplets, and have a prominent nutrient groove. Lateral teeth have a more flattened (broad) blade, striations are greatly reduced or absent, and there are prominent cusplets. I don't see anything that looks like obvious lateral teeth, but several in the top row could be anterior goblin shark teeth. I can't see the striations in the photo, so I can't be sure. Some of the teeth have conspiculous cusplets and are likely sand tigers instead. The Ptychodus are definitely Cretaceous. Everything else (all of row 2 and 3, and the tigers in the bottom row) looks Miocene to me, and so out of place for where they were collected.

I don't see any Cretalamna, Squalicorax, or Cretalamna, but those were much less common than Scaphanorhynchus when I collected there, in the pre-salting days.

Others are welcome to agree or disagree. I only got interested in shark teeth a couple of years ago, and don't have a ton of experience.

Don

[Ramo]

100 years from now if a paleontologist "discovers" my yard, With just the stuff I throw out into my driveway, I guarantee they'll be plenty confused.

Ramo

[Indy]

100 years from now if a paleontologist "discovers" my yard, With just the stuff I throw out into my driveway, I guarantee they'll be plenty confused.

Ramo

Same here ...

[sixgill pete]

100 years from now if a paleontologist "discovers" my yard, With just the stuff I throw out into my driveway, I guarantee they'll be plenty confused.

Ramo

I second that opinion!!!!

[sixgill pete]

Guess I should have said third, Indy beat me to the punch.