Obtaining Permission To Collect

[Fat Boy]

How receptive are people if you ask them for access to their property to fossil collect, particularly creeks, river, and beach access? What percentage of the time are you successful? Do you offer anything in return? What approaches do you take or tips do you have? I've only limited myself to public access and am thinking about possibly finding some new spots. It's not that I can't still find good stuff where I go, but rather I like the solitude sometimes of going somewhere to escape the hustle and bustle. I currently don't have a boat, but am looking to buy one. I need a good fishing machine anyway that could convert to fossil access on bigger waters. I also may have a good kayak again for dual purposes soon. The boat alone might solve some of my problems on big water, but creeks intrigue me as well. I have not yet explored all of the public access to the creeks yet, but I'm curious how you all expand your horizons?

Thanks and I'm looking forward to your thoughts.

[Fat Boy]

Oh, and by the way for those in my local area, I'm not asking for secret spots people to ask, simply your approach in general vague kind of terms. I'm familiar with the responses that I get when asking for hunting permission as I've heard almost all of them either positive or negative, so I've tailored my techniques accordingly. The fossil angle on this topic is new to me, so hence my curiosity. My guess would be people might be more positive, but maybe not. I've been to a couple sites where there are signs plastered all over the place probably due to rude people that don't bother to ask. I'd be a bit more nervous about asking those folks, but if it's anything like hunting sometimes they're actually the more appreciative ones whether they grant permission or not simply because you thought to ask. But, I could be wrong. This seems to me like a universal issue.

[tracer]

well, let's see. some places, the sun is shining, the birds are chirping, and the people are friendly and don't care what you do. other places, they're out in the middle of nowhere specifically because they're psychos operating meth labs and they'll kill you without wondering why you're there. most places fall somewhere in between.

tj and i have gone some places which probably weren't the best places to go. the fact that we emerged unscathed from these adventures is meaningless when contemplating the next adventure. you only get to screw up bad once.

one time we were under a bridge over a creek out in the country, and a local stopped on the bridge above and yelled at us that he wouldn't be crossing any fences if he were us. i told him we weren't crossing any fences. he proceeded to attempt to intimidate by saying that country people get "itchy" when strangers are around. i actually don't think he even owned any property anywhere near where we were - he just saw a strange vehicle beside the road and decided to play local big guy. i felt like asking him when that part of Texas seceded from the union, but i just played it straight and acted like a friendly, clueless stranger passing through. no point in getting in any snarge with your kid with you.

there is no guarantee or reasonable expectation of civility in isolated areas. my preference has therefore been to be on public property. i'm sure i've missed out on fossiling opportunities, but i won't go on peoples' property and approach their residences to ask about fossil hunting. murphy's law says they'll think i'm a revenooer, child support collector, there about their felony warrant, from a rival drug gang, or from that alien spacecraft they've been expecting to land.

[Dave Daniel AKA (Bones)]

I don't know how many times I have been told the misconceived idea that, if you find something the government will invade my property and take possession of it. Especially gravel pits think their operation can be shut down.

Like the government cares about fossils. I guess SUE made the uninformed think the government has the right to take fossils.

[grampa dino]

I don't recall ever being turn down, most of the time we have a hard time getting away from the land owner talking so much, but that is a small price to pay. B.D. say's I look like an old farmer anway. so they you go.

Why I remeber way back bin stop by a fish cop in the middle no where up on the Red Deer river and we just talk for the longest time and he never asked what was in my backpack.

[tracer]

it's definitely good to look like an old farmer. but i don't.

[jkfoam]

This may turn into an interesting topic discussion. In my personal experiences I have been granted and refused permission . I thing I learned, when talking to the land owner never,ever, say you are "hunting" fossils, always say you are "collecting" fossils. I don't know if they think I'm going to shoot the fossil or what, after I said I wanted to "hunt" fossils, but I had better success after saying I wanted to collect fossils. Also, I had worst luck in Texas the further west I went. One land owner told me no and further said I wanted to come out and play on his land while he was busting his A.. trying to make a living on his land.

Probably the biggest problem I had was try to find out who owned the land so you know who to talk to. I never did find an answer to that question. Not many people actually live on their farm or ranches anymore.

JKFoam

[Carl O'Cles]

How receptive are people if you ask them for access to their property to fossil collect, particularly creeks, river, and beach access? What percentage of the time are you successful? Do you offer anything in return? What approaches do you take or tips do you have? I've only limited myself to public access and am thinking about possibly finding some new spots. It's not that I can't still find good stuff where I go, but rather I like the solitude sometimes of going somewhere to escape the hustle and bustle. I currently don't have a boat, but am looking to buy one. I need a good fishing machine anyway that could convert to fossil access on bigger waters. I also may have a good kayak again for dual purposes soon. The boat alone might solve some of my problems on big water, but creeks intrigue me as well. I have not yet explored all of the public access to the creeks yet, but I'm curious how you all expand your horizons?

Thanks and I'm looking forward to your thoughts.

Can't ever hurt to ask but my experiences are almost always negative. The reason being is that someone was there at some point before you and screwed it all up for everyone. Remember that probally less than 20 years ago everything was open to hunting and now idiots and lawsuits have since change that drasticly. In the last 5 or so years i have lost access to 4-5 local sites because of idiots, such a shame

[screweduptexan]

My husband's grandfather thinks the same way that if you find something on his property and the gov finds out, they will invade his property. Luckily for us, since we are family and all, he has granted us permission to collect. We have come back with pottery shards, beads, arrowheads, flint and obsidian tools and fossils. Supposedly there is treasure buried on his land from Butch Cassidy (Gordon Creek area of Carbon County Utah in the Price area). Dont get your hopes up about hunting for treasure there though, he wont allow anyone to search for it (except family). None's been found yet and he has lived there off and on for nearly 80 years.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

If I think a particular property has enough potential I track down the landowner's name through the county tax office, then call information and shoot straight and fast. I'd say my hit rate is 60-75%. Just be honest about your intentions and see what they say. On a few occasions I've been able to secure permission for clubs, but generally I'm shooting for permission for myself and perhaps a buddy or two. Small head counts with gray haired guys like me tends to imply we are smart enough to have made it this far in life without falling off any cliffs, but you never know, so if needed I bring my own blank waiver.

[jpbowden]

I always ask, that's just the way respect works. Let's face it, you have a 50/50% chance of yes or no. All said and done, just talk in plain language without tiring to impress them and you can go a long way. In other words be one of them, I talk about the weather, the crops, weeds and mostly things they like or the problems they are having. Lack of rain is a good stating point anywhere in this part of Texas. Just be friendly and don't bring pets, that will get you a no faster than anything. Close gates, leave the cattle alone, and here in Texas there are family grave yards, stay clear of them and if you have to go by them, for God sake take your hat off.

[mommabetts]

I always ask, that's just the way respect works. Let's face it, you have a 50/50% chance of yes or no. All said and done, just talk in plain language without tiring to impress them and you can go a long way. In other words be one of them, I talk about the weather, the crops, weeds and mostly things they like or the problems they are having. Lack of rain is a good stating point anywhere in this part of Texas. Just be friendly and don't bring pets, that will get you a no faster than anything. Close gates, leave the cattle alone, and here in Texas there are family grave yards, stay clear of them and if you have to go by them, for God sake take your hat off.

The last statement that you made about the hat surprised me, you don't hear that anymore. That is how I was taught and taught my boys the same. To this day when my sons just drive by a grave yard they remove their hat going down the road. I have seen people look at them like they were crazy and ask what they were doing. I agree with the respect thing, it is how you approach someone that makes all the difference in the world. True Texans are a strange lot when it comes to outsiders especially out in the country. Trust me they know when you are on their property before you do, you might not see them but chances are they are there. If someone comes to my door and asks to come on my land 99% of the time I will say yes but let me catch you on here with out permission and I will track you down with gun in hand. It all boils down to a respect thing with most Texans.

[grampa dino]

That reminds me of the time and friend and I asked one old framer he always said yes, then one time we asked him,

scince you knew the car we drive could we skip comeing down to the house to say HI and park up the road.

He thought for awhile looked at the two of us and said NO I want you to come to the house first, I like to know who I'm shooting at.

[Ronbo]

This may turn into an interesting topic discussion. In my personal experiences I have been granted and refused permission . I thing I learned, when talking to the land owner never,ever, say you are "hunting" fossils, always say you are "collecting" fossils. I don't know if they think I'm going to shoot the fossil or what, after I said I wanted to "hunt" fossils, but I had better success after saying I wanted to collect fossils. Also, I had worst luck in Texas the further west I went. One land owner told me no and further said I wanted to come out and play on his land while he was busting his A.. trying to make a living on his land.

Probably the biggest problem I had was try to find out who owned the land so you know who to talk to. I never did find an answer to that question. Not many people actually live on their farm or ranches anymore.

JKFoam

Try the tax accessors office, I think it is public and you can get a mailing adress,

to add since most of my collecting has been in public type areas and diving I really havent had to ask, But if it was me and I had permission I would have to make a neat display out of something I found on their place and present it to them as a gift...

If ya bring me a punkin pie a home made one I`ll let ya dig any where in my yard ya want LOL might not find anything but ya sure welcome to dig ya heart out lol....

Ron

[Ronbo]

That reminds me of the time and friend and I asked one old framer he always said yes, then one time we asked him,

scince you knew the car we drive could we skip comeing down to the house to say HI and park up the road.

He thought for awhile looked at the two of us and said NO I want you to come to the house first, I like to know who I'm shooting at.

Good ole boys, LOL they universal...

great thread by the way ... :cool:

[tracer]

well, speaking of knowing how to act when passing a graveyard, that reminded me of a story about hunting with another serious fossil collector...

two serious fossil hunters, who shall remain nameless, were busily digging at a premium roadcut one day. they were trying to outdo each other with great finds, and the trash talk and dirt were relentlessly flying. one of them suddenly stops, whips off his pith helmet, closes his eyes, and bows down in prayer. the other fossil hunter can't figure out what's going on but then looks behind him and notices a long funeral procession going by on the road.

He tells his friend: “Wow, that is the most thoughtful and touching thing I have ever seen. You truly are a kind and thoughtful man.”

The friend then replies: “Yeah, well we were married 35 years.”

[mommabetts]

well, speaking of knowing how to act when passing a graveyard, that reminded me of a story about hunting with another serious fossil collector...

two serious fossil hunters, who shall remain nameless, were busily digging at a premium roadcut one day. they were trying to outdo each other with great finds, and the trash talk and dirt were relentlessly flying. one of them suddenly stops, whips off his pith helmet, closes his eyes, and bows down in prayer. the other fossil hunter can't figure out what's going on but then looks behind him and notices a long funeral procession going by on the road.

He tells his friend: “Wow, that is the most thoughtful and touching thing I have ever seen. You truly are a kind and thoughtful man.”

The friend then replies: “Yeah, well we were married 35 years.”

You are a bad bad boy!!!!!!!!!!

[tracer]

well, the story below is another reason why i don't want to go on some old farmer's land...

A big city lawyer went duck hunting in rural Tennessee. He shot and dropped a bird, but it fell into a farmer's field on the other side of a fence.

As the lawyer climbed over the fence, an elderly farmer drove up on his tractor and asked him what he was doing.

The litigator responded, "I shot a duck and it fell in this field, and now I'm going to retrieve it."

The old farmer replied, "This is my property, and you are not coming over here."

The indignant lawyer said, "I am one of the best trial attorneys in the United States and, if you don't let me get that duck, I'll sue you and take everything you own.

The old farmer smiled and said, "Apparently, you don't know how we settle disputes in Tennessee. We settle small disagreements like this with the "Three Kick Rule."

The lawyer asked, "What is the Three Kick Rule?"

The Farmer replied, "Well, because the dispute occurs on my land, first I kick you three times and then you kick me three times and so on back and forth until someone gives up."

The attorney quickly thought about the proposed contest and decided that he could easily take the old codger. He agreed to abide by the local custom.

The old farmer slowly climbed down from the tractor and walked up to the attorney. His first kick planted the toe of his heavy steel toed work boot into the lawyer's groin and dropped him to his knees. His second kick to the midriff sent the lawyer's last meal gushing from his mouth.

The lawyer was on all fours when the farmer's third kick to his rear end sent him face-first into a fresh cow pie.

The lawyer summoned every bit of his will and managed to get to his feet. Wiping his face with the arm of his jacket, he said, "Okay, Now it's my turn."

The old farmer smiled and said, "Naw, I give up. You can have the stupid duck."

[Guest Nicholas]

A semi-related piece of advice, let EVERYONE know that your a hunter and people will find you!

[Fat Boy]

Try the tax accessors office, I think it is public and you can get a mailing adress,

to add since most of my collecting has been in public type areas and diving I really havent had to ask, But if it was me and I had permission I would have to make a neat display out of something I found on their place and present it to them as a gift...

If ya bring me a punkin pie a home made one I`ll let ya dig any where in my yard ya want LOL might not find anything but ya sure welcome to dig ya heart out lol....

Ron

Those are both great ideas!