Reptile Head Fossil

[Mathewhepplewhite]

Can anyone tell me what this is please?

[Mathewhepplewhite]

I think it's possibly a snake but definitely a reptile of some sort. I found it in the great dividing mountain range of NSW AUS.

[Kosmoceras]

I don't believe this is a fossil of any sort, this is a common incidence of a pseudofossil.

Regards,

[painshill]

Hi Mathew and welcome to the forum.

We get rather a lot of posts like this one... to the extent that it might be a good idea if we had a "standard response" which summarises why the soft body parts of animals rarely fossilize... and when they do they don't look like that.

Curiously, many of these posts come from people in Australia which seems to have an abundance of odd-shaped rocks which resemble animal forms. I can see why you would think that it might be a snake, but as Thomas says... it's a pseduofossil. It also appears to be composed of igneous rock whereas fossils are almost invariably found in sedimentary rocks and preservation of soft tissue requires exceptional circumstances in very particular kinds of deposits (which are very unlike what you are showing) that only occur in a few localities worldwide.

[Mathewhepplewhite]

Thank you for your input but I am not entirely convinced that it is a pseudo fossil. There is a bulge where an eye would be located on its left side which looks like organic matter and appears to have been forced out of it by immense pressure. Is it possible to preserve the skin of a reptile to the point of fossilisation under extreme pressure and without an atmosphere for decomposition to take effect. Not that I don't believe you, but is there somewhere I can get it examined closely. I am near Newcastle in AUS.

[Xiphactinus]

Definitely a psuedo fossil. 100%

[Gizmo]

You've asked us to tell you what it is and like the posters above have explained it's just an oddly shaped rock.

[Fossildude19]

Agreed. Not a fossil.

Regards,

[Indy]

It's a rock

The world is full of rocks with interesting shapes and patterns.

Many of them .. if you stare at them long enough ... You'll see Elvis !!

[Mathewhepplewhite]

Thankyou

[JohnJ]

These guys are right..., but if you need more assurance, a polite inquiry to the University of Newcastle may result in an ID of the kind of rock you've found.

[Mathewhepplewhite]

I sent the archaeology dept a video today and they have replied saying they were unable to identify it and put me in touch with the great north museum I think it was called.

[JohnJ]

It would be better to consult the Geology dept. or a geologist / paleontologist at a museum.

[RichW9090]

I would not even dignify this rock with the label "pseudofossil". A pseudofossil is something that looks like an actual fossil, not something that looks like an actual animal. These such things are what I would call "imaginary fossils". They bear the same relationship to a real fossil that a cloud formation bears to a living animal.

That may sound harsh, and I would not normally give that answer as a first response. But after someone comes here to have something identified, and then won't accept the broader suggestion that it isn't a fossil at all, it seems necessary.

We, as a group, are not infallible, and no one of us knows everything. But we all, pretty much, can recognize something that is not a fossil.

So perhaps Painshill is right - we ought to have some sort of statement pinned to the begining of this category explaining what a fossil is and what it isn't, with the two categories, pseudofossil and imaginary fossil, well illustrated (with examples from our own collections or from the internet, rather than examples drawn from those who post them here). I'm willing to offer up my theropod claw from Big Brook, which lay on my shelf for 30 years or more firmly identified in my head, but which is just another BB concretion.

Rich

[Indy]

While talking about having a pinned thread on rocks that aren't fossils ...

How about a pinned with the title

It's Not A Fossil Egg ... It's A Concretion !!

[Auspex]

For folks (perfectly fine, average folks) with no background in paleontology or geology, it is very hard to get past a superficial resemblance to familiar objects. These things look like they look, and without any experience with alternative explanations, they can be convincing.

Skepticism applies opposite the direction of experience, and I am an enthusiastic supporter of skepticism as fundamental tool of science. A little 'push-back' is not a sign of disrespect, but perhaps a request for relevant, supporting information.

[Mathewhepplewhite]

Ok so the majority of replies and the 30 years or so of experience held in ones head is enough for me to believe it is an odd rock. But what "if it was fashioned from a layered stone" is the protrusion on the side. Whilst it appears to be a separate substance it is clearly attached or embedded in the rock. I have shown this piece to a number of reptile enthusiasts who have all examined it closely and who all agreed it would be consistent with trauma. On that note, I wish to convey gratitude to all for your findings and to say I am wanting to know how someone can dismiss something so quickly as fake when there is so much of the worlds mountainous regions still untouched by human hands and yet to be discovered. And if there was a bunch of cancer victims in one region would that not warrant an investigation of some sort. So if there is a large number of pseudo fossils "rocks" with similar characteristics would that not be classified as a type of unknown cluster. Anyway what would I know I am only a quantum physicist.

capturedvideo.MOV

[Auspex]

On a water-tumbled cobble, a protruding irregularity is likely caused by its being a harder, more abrasion resistant inclusion.

I cannot make it out in your picture well enough to speak in more than this sort of generality.

[Indy]

LInk

[Auspex]

...Anyway what would I know I am only a quantum physicist.

I guess it is the other Matthew Hepplewhite in Cessnock who is a carpenter, and plays on the Cessnock Coalfields Rugby Union Club?

C'mon, Mate, drop the sarcasm and be honest with us!

[piranha]

I guess it is the other Matthew Hepplewhite in Cessnock who is a carpenter, and plays on the Cessnock Coalfields Rugby Union Club?

C'mon, Mate, drop the sarcasm and be honest with us!

The rock needs a rest from this scrum!

[Mathewhepplewhite]

So if I was to tell you I have a background in quantum mechanics you would think I am full of stuff because I live in cessnock and play rugby. You my friend are mistaken I do indeed have extensive experience in quantum physics and electro magnetism so get off your soap box and read the book before you judge it's cover. How do you like them apples.

[painshill]

I predict this is not going to end well.

[Mathewhepplewhite]

I am indeed that Mathew. And I resent the judgement made against me. I became a builder when I needed a more secure source of income to support my young family. I put what was more important to me above all else. Family. I don't know how my rock led to me defending my intellect but I guess it's true that "you only see what you want to see for a fear of the unknown".

[RichW9090]

Well, I see a trip in your immediate future, Matthew.

Actually, we don't really give a rat's what formal education someone has or does not have - what matters is what they've learned and are willing to learn. We have everything in this Forum starting with new members with absolutely no training in paleontology, and no experience, who are just beginning to learn about fossils. We also have more than a few professional paleontologists with a very wide range of interests. And most important of all, perhaps, we have a large core membership of amateur collectors, many of whom are as good as any PhD in paleontology, know a great deal, are helpful and considerate to the new members (more so than I am, as I have a fairly short fuse and don't suffer fools gladly).

Showing your "fossil" to a bunch of reptile enthusiasts is equivalent to taking your dog to a geologist when he gets sick or breaks a bone. Geologists are not expected to know much about living animals, and reptile enthusiasts are not expected to know much about fossils. However, the folks here DO know a bit about fossils.

And see, we can get snarky, too, if you start it with us. For example, someone well educated in quantum mechanics and electromagnetism (it is one word, not two) should know the difference between "it's" and "its".

Your attitude is not going to help you here.