Rockaholic Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) This is a late middle Pennsylvanian split nodule from Indiana. I'm thinking that this might be a fertile fern fossil. Any thoughts? Edited August 28, 2013 by Rockaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Very difficult to say on the basis of this photograph. Can you identify any sori on the pinnules? Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockaholic Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Very difficult to say on the basis of this photograph. Can you identify any sori on the pinnules?I thought that these might be sori though I must admit that Im not sure what distinguishing characteristics might help identify them as sori. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hi Rockaholic, another great Indiana fossil! Here's a document I found and havent even gone thru yet entirely if you really want to get into some of the diagnostic details as the answer is beyond me a bit--it certainly varies among plant types. This doc is for Mazon Creek and there's a bunch of great stuff in here--60 pages worth including photos. Some Fern-Like Fructifications and Their Spores from the Mazon Creek Compression Flora of Illinois (Pennsylvanian) H. W. Pfefferkorn, R. A. Peppers,T. L. Phillips CIRCULAR 463 1971 ILLINOIS STATE GEOLOGICAL SURVEY http://library.isgs.uiuc.edu/Pubs/pdfs/circulars/c463.pdfI do agree yours generally looks like some of the fertile Pecopterid frond examples I've seen from Mazon creek and defer to Tim, Rob, Jack and other experts. I do understand Tim's questioning looking for confirmation. The preservation level and the white calcite many times highlites but can also mask the fine details of both the venation and the fertile areas. Jack's flora book has a number of fertile examples to look at and here's several quick online photo links showing some others that I am also aware of--the 2nd one a recent example of another thread/photo provided by Jack. http://www.georgesbasement.com/Langford-Personal/MazonCreek-by-SHL/Webpage/Pages8-11.htm http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=179959 http://www.georgesbasement.com/Langford-WilmingtonCoalFlora/Webpage/Crossotheca-fertileandsterileP57.htm Neat plant fossil! Regards, Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleoflor Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Thanks for the link to Pfefferkorn et al. (1971), Chris. Very handy manuscript! I must agree that the photo's do resemble some of the fertile fronds figured in Wittry 2006 (until very recently my only source for Mazon Creek, he he - so thanks again, Chris). My experience with Mazon Creek material (fossilization mode, etc.) is rather limited, so I don't know how much such a visual comparison is worth (can sterile frond produce similar 'white balls', somehow?), but it looks promising. I am very curious to read what the people knowledgeable on the locality and its taphonomy have to say about it! Searching for green in the dark grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Thanks for the link to Pfefferkorn et al. (1971), Chris. Very handy manuscript! I must agree that the photo's do resemble some of the fertile fronds figured in Wittry 2006 (until very recently my only source for Mazon Creek, he he - so thanks again, Chris). My experience with Mazon Creek material (fossilization mode, etc.) is rather limited, so I don't know how much such a visual comparison is worth (can sterile frond produce similar 'white balls', somehow?), but it looks promising. I am very curious to read what the people knowledgeable on the locality and its taphonomy have to say about it! Tim, it does look like there is some good info in there...I hope to go thru it at length over the weekend. I sure understand the value of having others more familiar with these locales/things taking a look! Lots of new stuff to be learned, discussed and insight to be gained. And for us older folks who cant remember a darn thing sometimes from one day to the next, relearned! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgrilusHunter Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 These are surprisingly common at many Indiana locations, they are still vastly outnumbered by Pecopteris though. If you visit Fowler Park south of Terre Haute, a site where the nodules are especially fined grained and dense, you can even find sori where the individual spores are spectacularly well preserved. I'll try and post some images this weekend. "They ... savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things." -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockaholic Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hi Rockaholic, another great Indiana fossil! Here's a document I found and havent even gone thru yet entirely if you really want to get into some of the diagnostic details as the answer is beyond me a bit--it certainly varies among plant types. This doc is for Mazon Creek and there's a bunch of great stuff in here--60 pages worth including photos. Some Fern-Like Fructifications and Their Spores from the Mazon Creek Compression Flora of Illinois (Pennsylvanian) H. W. Pfefferkorn, R. A. Peppers,T. L. Phillips CIRCULAR 463 1971 ILLINOIS STATE GEOLOGICAL SURVEY http://library.isgs.uiuc.edu/Pubs/pdfs/circulars/c463.pdf I do agree yours generally looks like some of the fertile Pecopterid frond examples I've seen from Mazon creek and defer to Tim, Rob, Jack and other experts. I do understand Tim's questioning looking for confirmation. The preservation level and the white calcite many times highlites but can also mask the fine details of both the venation and the fertile areas. Jack's flora book has a number of fertile examples to look at and here's several quick online photo links showing some others that I am also aware of--the 2nd one a recent example of another thread/photo provided by Jack. [/size] http://www.georgesbasement.com/Langford-Personal/MazonCreek-by-SHL/Webpage/Pages8-11.htm http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=179959 http://www.georgesbasement.com/Langford-WilmingtonCoalFlora/Webpage/Crossotheca-fertileandsterileP57.htm Neat plant fossil! Regards, Chris Thanks again for the great references.I'm leaving on a vacation soon and now will have some good reading material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockaholic Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 These are surprisingly common at many Indiana locations, they are still vastly outnumbered by Pecopteris though. If you visit Fowler Park south of Terre Haute, a site where the nodules are especially fined grained and dense, you can even find sori where the individual spores are spectacularly well preserved. I'll try and post some images this weekend.Looking forward to seeing the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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