Flower Fossils?

[fossilshk]

A interesting new found. Late Jurassic fossil plant from Liaoning, China.

[Plantguy]

Nice fossil, I'm liking it....hmmm...so Jurassic...hmmm...

I dont know what kind of frutification that is/from....maybe someone will have a quick ID.

Thanks for showing us!

Regards, Chris

Edited August 29, 2013 by Plantguy

[paleoflor]

To me it resembles a seed with lateral wings rather than a flower.

[Auspex]

A seed, perhaps, maybe even a samara of sorts, but the late Jurassic record of true flowers is murky and conjectural (at best).

This is a terrific specimen in any case!

[Missourian]

I was wondering about fossil flowers myself:

https://www.google.com/search?q=fossil%20flower&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=wb8fUtiKG-rPsATc24GYCw&biw=1116&bih=758&sei=xL8fUuOVC6O4sQSgioGIDA

[Plantguy]

How about Chaoyangia liangii female reproductive structures...from the oldest angiosperm from China. look at Figures 1 c & d.

Maybe?

http://earth.scichina.com:8080/sciDe/fileup/PDF/98yd0014.pdf

Looks like there is a great photo on it making it into the L Cretaceous as well. Gurvanella (holotype of Chaoyangia liangii Duan 1998)

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v421/n6925/fig_tab/nature01420_F6.html

Regards, Chris

[fossilshk]

Thanks all and thanks for the additional informations.

[piranha]

The Liaoning flora (Yixian Fm) is early Cretaceous. Callianthus dilae is a small flower that does have some similarity with the posted specimen that appears to have the apical styles in an enclosed state. The cited paper has additional examples for comparison.

 

 

Wang, X., & Zheng, S. (2009)

The earliest normal flower from Liaoning Province, China.

Journal of Integrative Plant Biology 51(8):800-811

 

PDF LINK

 

 

 

[Plantguy]

The Liaoning flora (Yixian Fm) is early Cretaceous. Callianthus dilae is a small flower that does have some similarity with the posted specimen that appears to have the apical styles in an enclosed state. The cited paper has additional examples for comparison.

Callianthus dilae.jpg

Wang, X., & Zheng, S. (2009)

The earliest normal flower from Liaoning Province, China.

Journal of Integrative Plant Biology 51(8):800-811

PDF LINK

Hi Scott, nice one--very well could be-- I like it better than what I proposed. Regards, Chris

[Plantguy]

I was thinking that the specimen more closely resembles an infructescence (fruit) than it does an inflorescence (flower); or perhaps its's even a gymnosperm samara--although semantics could play a key role here, in that your Subject Line "Flower Fossils?" reflects speculation that the fossil derives from an angiosperm, in general: AKA, a flowering plant.

Anyhow, the noted Yixian Formation of the Liaoning Province, China--from which your specimen obviously came--is unquestionably early Cretaceous in geologic age. Preliminary, poorly controlled radiometric isotope analyses in the 1990s suggested a geologic age as old as 145 million years, (one famous paleobotanist tried to push it back even farther, to some 148 million years). Yet, more recent radiometric age-dating studies (much better regulated) proved that the richly fossiliferous Yixian Formation is from 125 to 123 million years old, fully within the early (not even earliest) Cretaceous. See http://sourcedb.cas.cn/sourcedb_igg_cas/en/zjrck/201004/W020130301535438277125.pdf , for example.

This entire research into the origins of the earliest angiosperms is rife with serious complications, not to mention myriads of hypotheses. For the past several days, for example, I've been having loads of fun attempting to decipher, and then paraphrase into perhaps a less-condensed scientific jargon (to my own satisfaction, so that I can perhaps begin to understand at least most of the ideas presented) the web page written by Dr. John M. Miller--Botanist and Paleobotanist--over at over at http://www.gigantopteroid.org/html/research.htm --that would be, "Paleobotany Of Angiosperm Origins"

Here are a few of my favorite passages:

1) "I ask the straightforward question:

"Were some of the detached spermopteroid megasporophylls found in the same bedding planes where delnorteas and evolsonias are found actually detached pieces of much larger 300 million year old bisexual protoflowers of a completely new kind of gigantopteroid seed plant?"

2) "An ontogenetic emphasis is considered in some aspects of my thinking, which is not unlike alternative ideas on character polarization in the absence of outgroups."

3) "Students of paleobotany and seed plant phylogenetics should pay close attention to several elegant models of cone and floral organization, which are underpinned by basic biochemical studies of molecular tool kits and their demonstrably conserved suite of homeodomain proteins and cis-acting TFs of developing SAMs of bisexual cone axes."

4) "Studies of the molecular evolution of KNOX/ARP homeodomain proteins, evolution of LFY genes following swarms of WGDs, and molecular evolution of homeotic MIKC-Type MADS-box protein quartets are essential ingredients in understanding the evolution of cones, flowers, inflorescences, and flower-like organs."

5) "Can angiosperm carpels share homology with the cupules of extinct seed plants if they were derived by completely different evo-devo programs of cis-acting transcriptional regulation?"

And, finally, this amazing compositional demonstration:

6) "Modifications to the transcriptional machinery of seed plant SAMs could potentially lead to drastic changes in morphology of organs and reproductive modules, with profound implications toward traditional ideas of homology of seed plant organs. For example, carpels, cupules, fertiligers, integuments, microsporophylls, megasporophylls, ovules, and strobili are important in cladistic analyses of seed plants.

"This means that in disparate seed plant groups traditional ideas and supposed homologies of organs such as ovular integuments (origin by evo-devo splitting of tissues or by incorporation of foliar organs), and position of ovules on the megasporophyll whether adaxial or abaxial, are called into question by studies of deeply conserved extant plant cis-acting TFs, regulatory genes, and tool kit proteins.

"Further, there is no convincing paleobotanical evidence for past elegant proposals on the evo-devo of the angiosperm outer ovular integument and carpels from cupules and axillary organs of Mesozoic Caytoniales to be found in the fast moving literature on molecular tool kits and ovular TFs."

Hi Inyo, and I thought I was the only one who had challenges with the English language especially with getting too wordy! Well, I still do and that will probably never change. I thoroughly enjoyed this post and now have some new verbiage to steal/use!

I'm not sure what we are looking at from a fossil perspective in this specimen. I kind of want to shoot the authors of the article Scott cited and see what they say...Scott do you know either of those two??? Inyo, do you know any other early angiosperm plant folks?

Regards, Chris

[piranha]

I kind of want to shoot the authors of the article Scott cited and see what they say...Scott do you know either of those two???

Regards, Chris

Hi Chris,

That sounds like a great idea! Here is the website for Xin Wang: LINK

[Plantguy]

Hi Chris,

That sounds like a great idea! Here is the website for Xin Wang: LINK

Scott, the Email ID request is on its way...will let you know if anything happens. Thanks again for all the info! Regards, Chris

[Plantguy]

Scott, the Email ID request is on its way...will let you know if anything happens. Thanks again for all the info! Regards, Chris

Looks like piranha beat me to it with a link...I would agree. Xin Wang is the early angiosperm expert to contact, alright.

A interesting new found. Late Jurassic fossil plant from Liaoning, China.

Hey you all,

I have been able to confirm it is not Callianthus dilae and unfortunately been told there is not enough info from the photos alone to answer with any certainty what it is. Oh well, its not the first time or the last that mother nature has thwarted the confirmation of an ID!

Still a neat fossil to ponder over! Thanks fossilshk for showing us and everyones input!

Regards, Chris

[Noon]

Here's a flower my 3 year old found this weekend! From republic, WA. Everyone was gasping and oohing and aahing and of course she had no idea what the fuss was all about.... Just a "Pretty! Ok what can I smash next?"

[Fossildude19]

Hello Noon!

That is a great Florissantia quilchenensis flower your daughter found there!

Beautiful.

Thanks for sharing it here.

Regards,

[DLB]

Nice one did u have the other half as well?