whowat13 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I was thinking that this is a Cow Shark para-symphyseal, but upon taking the pictures and zooming in, I am not as sure as I would like to be. Please refer to the following three closeups. The slant length is about 5.57mm. -Bill H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessed1 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm not sure what this could be. Are there faint serrations near the bottom of the main crown? What is the size of this tooth? This information will help to get a good ID on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 The length is 4.8mm and the width is 3.61mm... I don't think those are serrations (I am looking at them under 10x magnification), but there are definitely cusps. -Bill H. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 It might be a Carcharhinus symphyseal tooth. Here's a modern Carcharhinus jaw showing similar teeth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 On 9/9/2013 at 4:23 AM, Al Dente said: It might be a Carcharhinus symphyseal tooth. Here's a modern Carcharhinus jaw showing similar teeth. Yeah, I'm leaning toward Carcharhinus symphyseal as well. There's a figure of a Carcharhinus symphyseal in the article below (root is different but then it is an Early Oligocene form): ADNET, S., P.O. ANTOINE, S.R.H. BAQRI, J.Y. CROCHET, I. MARIVAUX, J.L. WELCOMME, and G. MÉTAIS. 2007.New tropical carcharhinids (Chondrichthyes, Carcharhiniformes) from the late Eocene-early Oligocene of Balochistan, Pakistan: Paleoenvironmental and paleogeographic implications.Journal of Asian Earth Sciences, 30: 303-323 I'm late on this one but ran into this thread while poking around looking for images of possible Carcharhinus symphyseals. Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 please note that there are no serrations on this tooth. that, and the cusps is what makes me really think that it's not a Carcharhinus tooth... ...and no problem being late on this, because I had forgotten all about this post... -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, whowat13 said: please note that there are no serrations on this tooth. that, and the cusps is what makes me really think that it's not a Carcharhinus tooth... ...and no problem being late on this, because I had forgotten all about this post... -Bill If you look closely at the picture of the jaw i posted, you will see that the symphyseal teeth of this shark don't have serrations either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, whowat13 said: please note that there are no serrations on this tooth. that, and the cusps is what makes me really think that it's not a Carcharhinus tooth... ...and no problem being late on this, because I had forgotten all about this post... -Bill There are some Carcharhinus species that do not have serrated teeth, others have some serrate and some not. And as Al Dente pointed out, the symphyseals of many are not serrate. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 2:39 PM, whowat13 said: please note that there are no serrations on this tooth. that, and the cusps is what makes me really think that it's not a Carcharhinus tooth... ...and no problem being late on this, because I had forgotten all about this post... -Bill Adding to Al Dente and Don's notes, the thing to remember about symphyseal teeth is that they have a reduced morphology and that doesn't mean they are just smaller. They are in process of losing the distinctive characters of their species and genus. What you see as side cusps may be all that is left of the heels. Across time in some individuals the file may even be absent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I have looked at under magnification hundreds of medial, alternate and symphyseal teeth in the symphysis areas of different extant shark jaws in my collection. These teeth can be extremely variable not only within a species but can also be variable in the same jaw. The only thing that I can say for sure about your tooth is unfortunately it is not a cow shark tooth. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 I do not have any modern jaws in my collection for reference... I only have fossils, so any photos showing the different medial, alternate and symphyseal shark teeth would be helpful. ...and since the post of this topic I have learned much more. I also agree that it is not cow shark, but would really like to know just what I have here. Thanks to everybody who has replied. -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 hours ago, whowat13 said: I do not have any modern jaws in my collection for reference... I only have fossils, so any photos showing the different medial, alternate and symphyseal shark teeth would be helpful. ...and since the post of this topic I have learned much more. I also agree that it is not cow shark, but would really like to know just what I have here. Thanks to everybody who has replied. -Bill Bill, is it possible for you to get sharper more detailed images of the tooth? It would help tremendously in trying to get a positive I.D. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Unfortunately, since the original posting date was in 2013 I can't think of where I placed this individual tooth. I'm doing some serious reorganizing of my collection right now, so I will keep my eye out for it. ...It's somewhere in my collection, but where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Ok... I found it! Here's some new pictures. It is on a quarter inch grid, and brightness is the only thing that has been adjusted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 This tooth is a symphyseal from a cow shark. There are 2 reported from Lee Creek.... Hexanchus griseus (BONNATERRE, 1788) aka H. gigas (SISMONDA, 1857) — Six Gilled shark or a Notorynchus cepedianus (PERON, 1807) aka N. primigenius (AGASSIZ, 1843) — Sevengill shark. Edit: Should have reread this thread before commenting. Argh! Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I don't agree with it being from a cowshark. Pretty sure it is from some species of Carcharhinus. Looks like there are hints of serrations on the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 ...and what, exactly, was the point of editing my photos to the point of them not looking like the tooth at all and reposting them??? -in reference to FossilDude's post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Looks exactly like one I found at Sharktooth hill that was identified as a cow. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, ynot said: Looks exactly like one I found at Sharktooth hill that was identified as a cow. Size reference in photo, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, whowat13 said: .and what, exactly, was the point of editing my photos He was trying to show the "serrations". I think it is damage (micro chippage) rather than serrations. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, whowat13 said: Size reference in photo, please... Sorry, was cropped from a group picture. It is around 1/2 inch, tip to root. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whowat13 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just now, ynot said: Sorry, was cropped from a group picture. It is around 1/2 inch, tip to root. Mine is smaller than a quarter inch in all dimensions... Probably one reason most are guessing that it probably isn't cow shark... 2 minutes ago, ynot said: He was trying to show the "serrations". I think it is damage (micro chippage) rather than serrations. It would have been nice if he had explained that... I wasn't trying to be rude, just left in the dark and confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, whowat13 said: just left in the dark and confused... Yeah -- Me too! I think the size of symphyseal teeth can vary quite a bit. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, whowat13 said: ...and what, exactly, was the point of editing my photos to the point of them not looking like the tooth at all and reposting them??? -in reference to FossilDude's post Umm... just trying to darken and enlarge them. To help? Unfortunately, your original pictures are a bit washed out and blurry, so it didn't really work out this time. Sometimes more can be discerned from editing the photos. Sorry to have tried to assist. 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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