bj aurora Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Hello everyone! I found this in Lee Creek a couple of years ago, in Yorktown material. As luck would have it, the NC Museum of Science had some experts there that day, and Vince Sneider and crew decided it was NOT fish, turtle or other reptile, or bird. It certainly has a shape totally unlike the cetaceans I am used to, as well as its small size. Sometimes it helps to know what it is not so one can decide what it is. I would appreciate any opinions for IDing this and I thank you in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopocetus Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I don't know. I'm trying to think of what animal would have a vertebrae with 2 convex sides... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 the only type of vert that i think might have two convex connecting surfaces is a sacral vertabra...from what, i do not know? "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopocetus Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 My best guess is some type of small land mammal...very worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 wow you did find an odd one there, usually with odd verts i would go with seal but this is not seal, ill look around and let you know if anything comes up, i cant tell if its worn or not maybe that has changed the way it looks, could also be deformed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va paleo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 it is mammal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va paleo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 one of my experts friends id it bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 mammal doesnt help very well, im going with peccary, bj you did say you found a pec. tooth a few years back in the mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I found a vert that somewhat resembles yours...convex at both ends. It was identified as a sloth tail vert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va paleo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 this is what expert said Looks mammal, but it's really too worn to say much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 WHAT!!!! well im pretty sure no one has found sloth stuff if PCS before so i dont think thats what it is but now knowing that some tail verts can look like this it might help out alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 this is what expert said Looks mammal, but it's really too worn to say much more mike in the mine almost all the bones come from mammal and BJ already said that the experts that were there told her that they were not turtle or anything of that nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 ok so i was looking at some pictures and found a picture of a crocodile vert that Carl O' Cles found, it seems to have 2 convex sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj aurora Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Thanks to all, so far some very interesting ideas. I doubt sloth, only because I have never heard of any from PCS. I do have some crocodile from there, including a vert (much larger), and it has one concave end, one convex. The turtle I have are also different from this one. I can tell you it appears to be its natural shape, not worn to the point of being unidentifiable. I have seen a slightly similar cervical bone in birds, but again, the double convex ends have perplexed us all. Onet that still makes me think bird is the size - unless it is from a fetus that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Thanks to all, so far some very interesting ideas. I doubt sloth, only because I have never heard of any from PCS. I do have some crocodile from there, including a vert (much larger), and it has one concave end, one convex. The turtle I have are also different from this one. I can tell you it appears to be its natural shape, not worn to the point of being unidentifiable. I have seen a slightly similar cervical bone in birds, but again, the double convex ends have perplexed us all. Onet that still makes me think bird is the size - unless it is from a fetus that is. no i have seen a croc vert that has 2 concvex sides, ill get a link to the pic http://www.phatfossils.com/pics/Crocodile%...dile%20Vert.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj aurora Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Bmore, any idea on the size of that vert you posted? It looks pretty worn, and not sure if we are looking at the lateral processes being "convex" or the superior/inferior aspects. Hate to repeat myself, but size has to be taken into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Bmore, any idea on the size of that vert you posted? It looks pretty worn, and not sure if we are looking at the lateral processes being "convex" or the superior/inferior aspects. Hate to repeat myself, but size has to be taken into consideration. as i was trying to say but then my post got deleted, lol ok now we have found out that sloth tail verts have 2 convex sides, the vert i have pictures of sems to have 2 convex sides, the vert is about 4" long, but i feel that yours could be a croc tail vert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Howdy, As it turns out, I believe you have it upside down. The neural foramen is always dorsal to the centrum, so what would appear at first to be the neural spine is actually the ventral side, and would probably be a ventral spine. If you look, the side you have labeled ventral has two epiphyseal surfaces where the rest of the bone is missing. That is likely the neural arch that is gone. It could be the first caudal vertebra of a crocodilian, which as far as I know, one of the only double-convex verts of any vertebrate. For comparison, here is a caudal vert from lee creek - the centrum morphology compares well (minus the haemal arch), although it is further posterior. http://www.elasmo.com/leecreek/image/ds1057b-web.jpg Its definitely not marine mammal - and I can't think of any land mammals that have verts like that (not that I'm an expert on land mammals). Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj aurora Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 thanks Boesse, I will contact George and take mine over to compare with his. Sorry I had it labeled upside down, I don't have the vert with me right now, only the pics that are compliments of Pat Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bmorefossil Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 hey i got the animal right just the wrong end lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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