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Need Help With Small Vert Id Please


bj aurora

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Hello everyone! I found this in Lee Creek a couple of years ago, in Yorktown material. As luck would have it, the NC Museum of Science had some experts there that day, and Vince Sneider and crew decided it was NOT fish, turtle or other reptile, or bird. It certainly has a shape totally unlike the cetaceans I am used to, as well as its small size. Sometimes it helps to know what it is not so one can decide what it is. I would appreciate any opinions for IDing this and I thank you in advance!

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the only type of vert that i think might have two convex connecting surfaces is a sacral vertabra...from what, i do not know?

"Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"


We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

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Guest bmorefossil

wow you did find an odd one there, usually with odd verts i would go with seal but this is not seal, ill look around and let you know if anything comes up, i cant tell if its worn or not maybe that has changed the way it looks, could also be deformed

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Guest bmorefossil

WHAT!!!! well im pretty sure no one has found sloth stuff if PCS before so i dont think thats what it is but now knowing that some tail verts can look like this it might help out alot

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Guest bmorefossil
this is what expert said Looks mammal, but it's really too worn to say much more

mike in the mine almost all the bones come from mammal and BJ already said that the experts that were there told her that they were not turtle or anything of that nature

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Guest bmorefossil

ok so i was looking at some pictures and found a picture of a crocodile vert that Carl O' Cles found, it seems to have 2 convex sides

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Thanks to all, so far some very interesting ideas. I doubt sloth, only because I have never heard of any from PCS. I do have some crocodile from there, including a vert (much larger), and it has one concave end, one convex. The turtle I have are also different from this one. :unsure: I can tell you it appears to be its natural shape, not worn to the point of being unidentifiable. I have seen a slightly similar cervical bone in birds, but again, the double convex ends have perplexed us all. Onet that still makes me think bird is the size - unless it is from a fetus that is.

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Guest bmorefossil
Thanks to all, so far some very interesting ideas. I doubt sloth, only because I have never heard of any from PCS. I do have some crocodile from there, including a vert (much larger), and it has one concave end, one convex. The turtle I have are also different from this one. :unsure: I can tell you it appears to be its natural shape, not worn to the point of being unidentifiable. I have seen a slightly similar cervical bone in birds, but again, the double convex ends have perplexed us all. Onet that still makes me think bird is the size - unless it is from a fetus that is.

no i have seen a croc vert that has 2 concvex sides, ill get a link to the pic

http://www.phatfossils.com/pics/Crocodile%...dile%20Vert.JPG

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Bmore, any idea on the size of that vert you posted? It looks pretty worn, and not sure if we are looking at the lateral processes being "convex" or the superior/inferior aspects. Hate to repeat myself, but size has to be taken into consideration.

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Guest bmorefossil
Bmore, any idea on the size of that vert you posted? It looks pretty worn, and not sure if we are looking at the lateral processes being "convex" or the superior/inferior aspects. Hate to repeat myself, but size has to be taken into consideration.

as i was trying to say but then my post got deleted, lol ok now we have found out that sloth tail verts have 2 convex sides, the vert i have pictures of sems to have 2 convex sides, the vert is about 4" long, but i feel that yours could be a croc tail vert

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Howdy,

As it turns out, I believe you have it upside down. The neural foramen is always dorsal to the centrum, so what would appear at first to be the neural spine is actually the ventral side, and would probably be a ventral spine. If you look, the side you have labeled ventral has two epiphyseal surfaces where the rest of the bone is missing. That is likely the neural arch that is gone.

It could be the first caudal vertebra of a crocodilian, which as far as I know, one of the only double-convex verts of any vertebrate.

For comparison, here is a caudal vert from lee creek - the centrum morphology compares well (minus the haemal arch), although it is further posterior.

http://www.elasmo.com/leecreek/image/ds1057b-web.jpg

Its definitely not marine mammal - and I can't think of any land mammals that have verts like that (not that I'm an expert on land mammals).

Bobby

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thanks Boesse, I will contact George and take mine over to compare with his. Sorry I had it labeled upside down, I don't have the vert with me right now, only the pics that are compliments of Pat Young.

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