Shark, Ray, And Fish Micros From The Lee Creek Mine Reject Material From North Carolina

[MarcoSr]

I want to thank John for sending me a small USPS package of fine matrix from the Lee Creek mine reject material from North Carolina. The matrix was well washed, clean and very easy to look through. It also was very shelly. I’ve found that the very shelly reject material which has been coming out of the Lee Creek mine the last few years has specimens that are in great condition and can contain some of the rarer species like cookie cutters. I’ve looked through Lee Creek reject material for years and until recently hadn’t found a cookie cutter. I’ve now found three in the last two years in the shelly matrix and I’ve only looked through a very small amount of matrix compared to the more normal muddy matrix loaded with small pebbles. I normally screened my reject material with window screen and was curious what might be in the smaller material which could fall through window screen. The specimens I found were in the .5mm to 7mm size range. If you place your cursor on a JPEG image you will see the file name which will have the specimen id as best that I can determine and the specimen size. Each matrix that I search makes me more of an avid micro tooth collector. If anyone has or can collect good matrix with shark, ray, and fish micros please send me a PM.

I was actually surprised to find a small whale shark and cookie cutter in this fine material:

Some other shark teeth:

A really small Bramble shark dermal denticle and ray dermal denticle:

There were a lot of ray teeth like Rhynchobatus, Dasyatis, Raja and especially Mobula and a couple that I’m not sure of the id.:

Lots of fish teeth:

Marco Sr.

[jcbshark]

Wow,nice finds Marco Sr.Very nice photography too.I went out to my creek last weekend but it's still about three ft too deep.I'll let you know as soon as I can get some material.Take care,Jeff

[PFOOLEY]

Great stuff, Marco. Seeing your finds have opened my eyes to all the wonderful possibilities of my collecting grounds.

[John Hamilton]

Marco,

I am happy that you found so many nice specimens in the matrix I sent. The only item you found that surprised me was that ray dermal denticle since I have only found one myself in this matrix. All of the other specimens have been fairly plentiful. I figured that there might be cookie cutters in this batch of matrix be cause I had been finding bits and pieces of them. I still can't understand how you get the micros so clean though. I have tried vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, ultrasonic jewelry cleaners etc... and still can't get result as good as yours. As always your photos are great and always a joy to look at.

Edited October 23, 2013 by John Hamilton

[MarcoSr]

Wow,nice finds Marco Sr.Very nice photography too.I went out to my creek last weekend but it's still about three ft too deep.I'll let you know as soon as I can get some material.Take care,Jeff

Jeff

I'm really looking forward to your material. Stream/river matrix from Florida usually has a very nice variety of species.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Great stuff, Marco. Seeing your finds have opened my eyes to all the wonderful possibilities of my collecting grounds.

Mike

You have a lot of opportunity in your badlands to find new species of micros especially in the formation matrix that hasn't been closely searched by others. The matrix which you sent to me was really great stuff.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Marco,

I am happy that you found so many nice specimens in the matrix I sent. The only item you found that surprised me was that ray dermal denticle since I have only found one myself in this matrix. All of the other specimens have been fairly plentiful. I figured that there might be cookie cutters in this batch of matrix be cause I had been finding bits and pieces of them. I still can't understand how you get the micros so clean though. I have tried vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, ultrasonic jewelry cleaners etc... and still can't get result as good as yours. As always your photos are great and always a joy to look at.

John

Thank you again for sending the fine matrix from the Lee Creek mine. It contained a nice variety of very nice conditioned specimens. You had washed everything really well. I used a jewelry ultrasonic cleaner for three complete cycles as a final cleaning of the sturdier micros changing the water for each cycle. Good luck in finding some complete cookie cutters in your matrix.

Marco Sr.

[John Hamilton]

John

Thank you again for sending the fine matrix from the Lee Creek mine. It contained a nice variety of very nice conditioned specimens. You had washed everything really well. I used a jewelry ultrasonic cleaner for three complete cycles as a final cleaning of the sturdier micros changing the water for each cycle. Good luck in finding some complete cookie cutters in your matrix.

Marco Sr.

Marco,

You are very welcome. I have found two complete cookie cutters in previous batches I have processed so hopefully I will find more.

P.S.

If you ever have any excess VA or MD micro matrix you don't need I'd be more than happy to cover the postage for some.

[John Hamilton]

Marco,

The tooth you have labeled as a Rhyncobatus looks more like a Rhinobatus to me but I am more often wrong than right.

Also could you post additional photos of the specimens labeled ray tooth 1 and ray tooth 2?

[MarcoSr]

Marco,

The tooth you have labeled as a Rhyncobatus looks more like a Rhinobatus to me but I am more often wrong than right.

Also could you post additional photos of the specimens labeled ray tooth 1 and ray tooth 2?

John

The main difference to me between Rhinobatos and Rhynchobatus is the relative lengths of the central and lateral uvulae, which are more pronounced in Rhinobatos. If I'm not seeing lateral uvula I first think Rhynchobatus although I have seen species of Rhinobatos where the lateral uvula were really difficult to discern. It is questioned by the experts if Rhinobatos are found in Lee Creek. There are some questionable examples. Not seeing distinct lateral uvulae and the rareness of Rhinobatos at Lee Creek, I went with Rhynchobatus.

I've been in the field and will be for a couple more days, but will try to get up additional pictures of ray tooth1 and 2 as soon as I can.

Marco Sr.

[Sacha]

As far as I can recall, the pictures posted on this and previous strings or fossils found in your various matrix batches, are all of marine animals. Don't you ever find terrestrial vertebrate fossils from rodents, reptiles or amphibians? I'm going to put some matrix together for John in a week or so (I hope) and since it will come from the Peace river, I would think it would have a mix of land and water species.

Some of my smaller fossils are from rabbit, raccoon and beaver.

[Auspex]

Oooo, Peace River micros could be pretty interesting, given the mash-up of formations it winnows!

[MarcoSr]

As far as I can recall, the pictures posted on this and previous strings or fossils found in your various matrix batches, are all of marine animals. Don't you ever find terrestrial vertebrate fossils from rodents, reptiles or amphibians?

I am mainly interested in shark and ray fossils. So I'm typically looking at matrix that is entirely marine. Occasionally I do find terrestrial vertebrate fossils that would up in the marine environment. There was one Eocene fauna that was near shore marine where I found a good number of bird bones. You can check out the below link.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/41375-some-eocene-bird-bones-from-my-collection/

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Marco,

Also could you post additional photos of the specimens labeled ray tooth 1 and ray tooth 2?

John

Here are some additional pictures.

I'm now pretty sure Ray tooth2 is just a damaged Mobula sp. I believe Ray tooth1 is a Dasyatidae.

Marco Sr.

[John Hamilton]

John

Here are some additional pictures.

Ray tooth1B 1.5mm.jpgRay tooth1La 1.5mm.jpgRay tooth1Li 1.5mm.jpgRay tooth1O 1.5mm.jpg

Ray tooth2 1mm.jpgRay tooth2B 1mm.jpgRay tooth2La 1mm.jpg

I'm now pretty sure Ray tooth2 is just a damaged Mobula sp. I believe Ray tooth1 is a Dasyatidae.

Marco Sr.

Marco,

I am going to have to agree with your ID's for these. I'm going to look through my Mobula teeth to see if I can find a similar specimen.

[isurus90064]

Great examples, great photography as well!

[fossilized6s]

I think i may have found a Whale shark tooth, but what are some of the most defining characteristics to help put an ID to it? Any help is appreciated.

[sixgill pete]

I think i may have found a Whale shark tooth, but what are some of the most defining characteristics to help put an ID to it? Any help is appreciated.

Charlie, Whale shark teeth are compressed with a large bulbous root. there is also a cutting edge along both sides of the blade. If you are not sure post a picture of it in the ID sextion and I am sure someone can tell for sure.

[fossilized6s]

Charlie, Whale shark teeth are compressed with a large bulbous root. there is also a cutting edge along both sides of the blade. If you are not sure post a picture of it in the ID sextion and I am sure someone can tell for sure.

Thanks for the feedback. Im thinking that it's not one. I'll have to post it, it's a very strange piece.

[MarcoSr]

Thanks for the feedback. Im thinking that it's not one. I'll have to post it, it's a very strange piece.

Charlie

Definitely post several pictures. We will let you know if it looks like a whale shark.

Marco Sr.

[Harris]

Amazing! Thank you for taking the time to photo, identify, catalogue and post...your micros. I never took much interest in them...but they are extremely beautiful!

[KYAL]

Great pictures!! Are there any good references for identifying Lee Creek Mine material? I just obtained a jar of it and would welcome any information that would me with IDs.

[fossilized6s]

Great pictures!! Are there any good references for identifying Lee Creek Mine material? I just obtained a jar of it and would welcome any information that would me with IDs.

You basically just need to search the forum for Lee Creek micros. Marco Sr, sixgill pete, Lissa and may others have posted their finds with IDs.

[MarcoSr]

Great pictures!! Are there any good references for identifying Lee Creek Mine material? I just obtained a jar of it and would welcome any information that would me with IDs.

You can check out http://elasmo.com/ under "Lee Creek". A lot of species are identified there.

Marco Sr.

[fossilized6s]

Marco, your link isn't working for me for some reason.....