Shark, Ray, Fish, And Other Micros From The Peace River Of Florida

[MarcoSr]

I want to thank John S. for sending me two gallons of well washed Peace River gravel from Florida. The Peace River has a very large diversity of species from recent to the Miocene. There were a lot of specimens in the gravel but a lot were damaged and/or water worn which is typical with river gravel. I found a large number of shark, ray and fish fossils, multiple mammal fossils and several snake vertebrae. I am posting some of the nicer and more unusual specimens which I found which range in size from 1.5mm to 8mm. If you place your cursor on a JPEG image you will see the file name which will have the specimen id as best that I can determine and the specimen size. If you can identify the specimens further please do so. Each matrix that I search makes me more of an avid micro tooth collector. If anyone has or can collect good matrix with shark, ray, and fish micros please send me a PM.

Some of the shark teeth which I found:

Some of the ray teeth and a ray dermal element which I found:

A partial fish mouth plate, a very nice Gar scale and some of the fish teeth which I found:

Continued in the next reply.

Marco Sr.

Edited April 7, 2014 by MarcoSr

[MarcoSr]

Two snake vertebrae, one of which may be recent:

One of the small bones which I found:

Some of the mammal teeth which I found:

Marco Sr.

Edited November 13, 2013 by MarcoSr

[sixgill pete]

Very nice Marco.

[Sacha]

That's very cool Marco. When I started communicating with John Hamilton about possible micros in the Peace River gravel, I didn't really know what to expect, but was hoping for terrestrial finds as well as shark and ray. Your results are better than I expected for the amount of material I sent you. I really appreciate the communication, the photos of your finds on this post and will look forward to the box you sent me back.

PS. Sorry about the clams!!

I am also happy to repeat this transaction, with similar agreement (no return post req'd) at your convenience, although clams may still be present. I'll need to ask John about his screens. A post of unique finds, including terrestrial is all that is required.

[John Hamilton]

I want to thank John S. for sending me two gallons of well washed Peace River gravel from Florida. The Peace River has a very large diversity of species from recent to the Miocene. There were a lot of specimens in the gravel but a lot were damaged and/or water worn which is typical with river gravel. I found a large number of shark, ray and fish fossils, multiple mammal fossils and several snake vertebrae. I am posting some of the nicer and more unusual specimens which I found which range in size from 1.5mm to 8mm. If you place your cursor on a JPEG image you will see the file name which will have the specimen id as best that I can determine and the specimen size. If you can identify the specimens further please do so. Each matrix that I search makes me more of an avid micro tooth collector. If anyone has or can collect good matrix with shark, ray, and fish micros please send me a PM.

Marco,

Glad to see you got a good variety in your matrix too. I'm still going through the matrix I received from John S. and have found many similar specimens. I was especially excited over the number of Nebrius teeth I found. I have to admit I am jealous of your Gar scale because mine didn't have the same coloration as yours (mine were just black). Great report and very nice photos as always.

Edited November 13, 2013 by John Hamilton

[jcbshark]

Very nice finds and pics Marco.I can't believe that tiny ray dermal scute,at least that is what I have always called them.That gar scale coloration is awesome too.

[shark57]

Keep up the good work Marco.

[Katfish61]

Nice micros!! You know I love our micros. I sit every night and go through mine.

[ahuijsmans]

miocene mammal teeth :D how awesome is that... any species in mind?

[edit] is the middle tooth on the top line a nebrius btw? [/edit]

Edited November 14, 2013 by ahuijsmans

[Sacha]

Marco and John, If you post the terrestrial stuff in the request for ID section, Rich said he would give it a shot. He may ask for different views of each which may be a pain, but he said he can do mice and voles as well as deer and pigs. I'm assuming he doesn't look at these posts, just ID requests.

[Al Dente]

Nice teeth Marco

Another Florida matrix you should try to obtain would be sand from the creeks in Gainesville. They have the same teeth as the ones in this thread but a lot are in good condition and there is a lot of nice colors to them, reds, yellows and other colors.

[MarcoSr]

That's very cool Marco. When I started communicating with John Hamilton about possible micros in the Peace River gravel, I didn't really know what to expect, but was hoping for terrestrial finds as well as shark and ray. Your results are better than I expected for the amount of material I sent you. I really appreciate the communication, the photos of your finds on this post and will look forward to the box you sent me back.

PS. Sorry about the clams!!

I am also happy to repeat this transaction, with similar agreement (no return post req'd) at your convenience, although clams may still be present. I'll need to ask John about his screens. A post of unique finds, including terrestrial is all that is required.

John

Thank you again for sending the gravel. The smaller baggie inside the larger baggie that I sent will have a lot of similar specimens including a couple of mammal teeth. I think you will really be surprised by the number of specimens that I found although most are damaged and/or water worn but again that is typical with river gravel. Hopefully you'll start searching the gravel now that you know what is in it. You might try taking some gravel from some of the little streams off the main river branches. The fossils in that gravel may be in better condition because they haven't been reworked as much.

Don't worry about the clams. They must be a really evasive species because they seem to be in a lot of the rivers now up the East Coast.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Marco,

Glad to see you got a good variety in your matrix too. I'm still going through the matrix I received from John S. and have found many similar specimens. I was especially excited over the number of Nebrius teeth I found. I have to admit I am jealous of your Gar scale because mine didn't have the same coloration as yours (mine were just black). Great report and very nice photos as always.

John

I found two Nebrius in the first cup of gravel that I went through. I thought I was going to find 50 or 60 of them. But I only found one more in the rest of the gravel. It is funny how sometimes that happens.

The Gar scale is my favorite specimen. Most are black and I really like the colors of this one.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Very nice finds and pics Marco.I can't believe that tiny ray dermal scute,at least that is what I have always called them.That gar scale coloration is awesome too.

Jeff

I used to call them both dermal scutes or dermal denticles. I called the much larger, more protective spines dermal scutes and the regular, really small skin elements dermal denticles. Now a lot of folks just call them dermal elements which I guess can mean both.

I'm searching your Creek matrix now. I already found a really nice cookie cutter so I'm very happy. Thanks again for sending the matrix.

Marco Sr.

[John Hamilton]

Marco and John, If you post the terrestrial stuff in the request for ID section, Rich said he would give it a shot. He may ask for different views of each which may be a pain, but he said he can do mice and voles as well as deer and pigs. I'm assuming he doesn't look at these posts, just ID requests.

I definitely will. I posted what I believe to be a small mammal molar for ID along with the cookie cutter teeth I found in the matrix jcbshark (Jeff) sent me but haven't got any response on the molar yet.

[MarcoSr]

miocene mammal teeth :D how awesome is that... any species in mind?

[edit] is the middle tooth on the top line a nebrius btw? [/edit]

Unfortunately I don't see a lot of small mammal teeth in MD/VA where I collect a lot. I do see a decent number from Florida but there is so much similarity that you really need a lot of experience for correct ids. I'll probably do like John suggested in a reply and post them in the id section of the Forum with better views and hopefully Rich or another expert can give some id help.

Yes I believe that tooth is a Nebrius. It is definitely a nurse shark tooth.

Marco Sr.

[John Hamilton]

Jeff

I used to call them both dermal scutes or dermal denticles. I called the much larger, more protective spines dermal scutes and the regular, really small skin elements dermal denticles. Now a lot of folks just call them dermal elements which I guess can mean both.

I'm searching your Creek matrix now. I already found a really nice cookie cutter so I'm very happy. Thanks again for sending the matrix.

Marco Sr.

Marco,

Did your cookie cutter still have any of the root? The ones I found were mainly just the crown.

[MarcoSr]

Nice teeth Marco

Another Florida matrix you should try to obtain would be sand from the creeks in Gainesville. They have the same teeth as the ones in this thread but a lot are in good condition and there is a lot of nice colors to them, reds, yellows and other colors.

That matrix sounds really interesting. Do you have any contacts in the Gainesville area that you could share?

Anyone else here on the Forum able to get matrix from the Gainesville area?

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Marco and John, If you post the terrestrial stuff in the request for ID section, Rich said he would give it a shot. He may ask for different views of each which may be a pain, but he said he can do mice and voles as well as deer and pigs. I'm assuming he doesn't look at these posts, just ID requests.

John

Rich needs to see good occlusal views and needs good dimensions. I'll see what I can do for an id post.

Marco Sr.

[Al Dente]

That matrix sounds really interesting. Do you have any contacts in the Gainesville area that you could share?

Anyone else here on the Forum able to get matrix from the Gainesville area?

Marco Sr.

I don't have a contact. About a year or two ago I drove from NC to Tampa and made a detour to Gainesville to visit the museum on campus. I had brought a small brass 1mm screen and a 1/4 inch screen with me and jumped in one of the creeks long enough to get about a 1 gallon sample of sand. I was surprised at the number of teeth in it. I think I found about 10 to 20 Rhynchobatus plus many Carcharhinus. I've never seen so many Rhynchobatus in such a small sample. Here are pictures to show the colors.

[Sacha]

John

You might try taking some gravel from some of the little streams off the main river branches. The fossils in that gravel may be in better condition because they haven't been reworked as much.

Marco Sr.

I know one little creek that comes into the river close to where I collect. I can give that a try. This Bone Valley member of the Hawthorn formation is a secondary, or tertiary deposit so damage is pretty widespread. Apparently the deposit was a estuary setting, chewed up and redeposited by changing ocean and river levels, then eroded into the river and redeposited. 95% of the big stuff is very damaged as well. It's still fun though. You never know what is in the next shovel full.

[MarcoSr]

I know one little creek that comes into the river close to where I collect. I can give that a try. This Bone Valley member of the Hawthorn formation is a secondary, or tertiary deposit so damage is pretty widespread. Apparently the deposit was a estuary setting, chewed up and redeposited by changing ocean and river levels, then eroded into the river and redeposited. 95% of the big stuff is very damaged as well. It's still fun though. You never know what is in the next shovel full.

John

The great variety of the species is what I also really like about the Peace River fossils. Some of the really small fossils survive reworking better than the bigger ones. They may have been protected in a little piece of the matrix during the original reworking. The fossils may not be in better condition in the creek but they may be better concentrated so it is worth a try.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

I don't have a contact. About a year or two ago I drove from NC to Tampa and made a detour to Gainesville to visit the museum on campus. I had brought a small brass 1mm screen and a 1/4 inch screen with me and jumped in one of the creeks long enough to get about a 1 gallon sample of sand. I was surprised at the number of teeth in it. I think I found about 10 to 20 Rhynchobatus plus many Carcharhinus. I've never seen so many Rhynchobatus in such a small sample. Here are pictures to show the colors.

smallFLrhynchobatus.JPG gvillerhynch1.jpg

Wow really nice!!!! Makes me want to get into the car and head south to Gainesville. Thanks for sharing.

[MarcoSr]

Marco,

Did your cookie cutter still have any of the root? The ones I found were mainly just the crown.

John

I've found four cookie cutters so far. Two were really nice crowns but with no root at all. One was a half of a tooth split down the middle with half of a nice crown and half of a nice root. The last one was a really nice complete tooth with a full root.

Marco Sr.

[John Hamilton]

John

I've found four cookie cutters so far. Two were really nice crowns but with no root at all. One was a half of a tooth split down the middle with half of a nice crown and half of a nice root. The last one was a really nice complete tooth with a full root.

Marco Sr.

That's awesome and I can't wait to see a photo. I guess I'll have to ask Jeff to send me some more matrix to see if I can find a complete one.

Edited November 14, 2013 by John Hamilton