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ANSWERING FOSSIL ID REQUESTS: Identification Posting For The Uninitiated 2.0 (NEW MEMBERS PLEASE READ)


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12 hours ago, JPinNh said:

As a casual observer of human nature and how people interact with each other i'm betting the odds are that more than one member has looked at a question they knew the answer to and instead of piping up they clicked onward. Its not an accusation or belittling its just how it is anywhere. People are just people.  This withholding does not in any way make the person negative, bad, or selfish it makes them human. See my meaning?

 

 

I guess it happens but it's definitely not frequent here. I love nailing a tough ID and based on the answers I've received on my own tougher ID's, I can say with certainty that this community thinks the same.

 

At least 3-4 times a year, I put up something up on fossilID that ends up being pretty much nothing (I might be going easy on myself saying only 3-4 times a year) and have NEVER heard a negative comment about it. On the flip side of the coin, most of my finds which really ended up being something special started right here in the fossils ID section with ID's from TFF members.

 

Just be ready to learn and apply that knowledge to your next fossil hunting trip and you will do great!

 

-Frank H

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6 hours ago, JPinNh said:

As a casual observer of human nature and how people interact with each other i'm betting the odds are that more than one member has looked at a question they knew the answer to and instead of piping up they clicked onward. Its not an accusation or belittling its just how it is anywhere. People are just people.  This withholding does not in any way make the person negative, bad, or selfish it makes them human. See my meaning?

 

 

And this is how you define "selfishly guarding their knowledge."?  It's informative to see how flexible are your observations of human nature.

 

 

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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There was a time I used to try to greet every new member and answer as many questions as I could.  That was 10 years ago, when the board was small.  Now the board is simply too big to keep up with.  These days I pop in multiple times a day, sometimes for only a minute or 2 at a time, scanning for just is what of highest personal interest, which often results in my attempts to share knowledge, other times to consume it.

 

Sharing of most knowledge, such as IDs, strat column discussion, or prep techniques, doesn't really diminish the value of that knowledge, at least for me.  But it does cost time to convey, time that I don't always have for the Forum, as dividing my time is always an exercise in opportunity cost.  I'm not always in a position to turn a 2 minute drive-by into a 20 minute info dump, particularly when at work.

 

"Where did you find that" lines of questioning have the potential to diminish site value, if answered, so I tend to dodge those discussions in front of an audience of 50K+.  Sometimes I'll answer via PM, sometimes not.  Depends on a number of factors.  That's just basic, responsible site stewardship.

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Grüße,

Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas

"To the motivated go the spoils."

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  • Fossildude19 changed the title to ANSWERING Fossil ID Requests: Identification Posting For The Uninitiated 2.0 (NEW MEMBERS PLEASE READ)
  • 4 weeks later...

I am a gamer chick as well as a prospector. When I played Guild Wars there were always new players asking questions or needing help getting through a particular part of the game. Because they were lazy or didn't know how to find the information they needed. Often times in the forums asking questions already answered many times. Older players often got impatient in their replys. So I totally understand how you all feel about us newbies. I would see someone asking for help for a long time. Even though I'd done that run many times. I would help them. One ungrateful player didn't follow my instructions multiple times. Finally I left him in the middle of the run and went back to town. 

I promise to be grateful for any help. Because I truly am grateful even if my piece of coral or what ever I have is the millionth time you've seen it. I will be so happy. I have a 40 # box half full of paper wrapped items I hope I maybe the one to show you something new. But, if not I will still be so happy to learn about my years worth of work. Thank you all.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/6/2019 at 11:29 PM, Ms Michal said:

I am a gamer chick as well as a prospector. When I played Guild Wars there were always new players asking questions or needing help getting through a particular part of the game. Because they were lazy or didn't know how to find the information they needed. Often times in the forums asking questions already answered many times. Older players often got impatient in their replys. So I totally understand how you all feel about us newbies. I would see someone asking for help for a long time. Even though I'd done that run many times. I would help them. One ungrateful player didn't follow my instructions multiple times. Finally I left him in the middle of the run and went back to town. 

I promise to be grateful for any help. Because I truly am grateful even if my piece of coral or what ever I have is the millionth time you've seen it. I will be so happy. I have a 40 # box half full of paper wrapped items I hope I maybe the one to show you something new. But, if not I will still be so happy to learn about my years worth of work. Thank you all.

Thing is, every fossil is different, and every fossil has a potential of being scientifically important, or just unusual or interesting. Although sometimes we've seen quite a couple similar fossils before, as each one is different we never get tired of them. With games, that one scene will pretty much always be very similar, as there's usually one way to solve it. Although they sometimes have their similarities, paleontology and gaming are completely different, as paleontology looks at nature itself, where no two things are exactly the same, while in games the program doesn't change. 

 

Anyways, you shouldn't be afraid of us getting "impatient of the newbies". We always enjoy seeing a new fossil, and will always be more than glad to help you in your quest for knowledge! Getting more people interested in fossils is always fun for us, and simply meeting people with the same passion even more so. It's one of the reasons that this forum exists and still has such an awesome community!

(The only thing where some could potentially become a little impatient is when someone is convinced that their pebble is a "dinosaur embryo", perfectly conserved with claws, skin, eyes and everything, even though several people on the forum repeatedly assure him/her that it's just a rock. They seek out our opinions and thoughts on their piece, but don't wanna hear a word of it because it's not the answer they wanted to hear... Luckily these little tensions, if they even arise, are never very serious and are rapidly dissolved. So nothing to worry about :) )

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Max Derème

 

"I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day."

   - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier

 

Instagram: @world_of_fossils

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  • 6 months later...
On 5/7/2014 at 9:30 AM, fossilized6s said:

If whether or not to help someone in need is the argument, its a no brainer to me. I don't want to sound "preachy", but i feel like hoarding knowledge helps no one. This is a bit dramatic haha, but it's like watching a puppy struggling in deep mud and leaving it there to its own demise. After joining this forum for the very same reason at hand, i feel a inherent reasponsiblity to help others ID there teasures the best i can and as often as i can given my knowledge. Now i don't know much....yet, but what i do know im happy to share even if it's continuously IDing something as simple as Horn Coral over and over and over. We don't know who is reaching out to us. It could be a dirt poor kid from China that had to hike miles to reach a computer because it was his life long dream to get his prized Coprolite fossil ID'd that he calls treasure. Just because we have greater knowledge then some who are we to thumb our nose at someones awesome find? So what if they don't know the fauna, formation, era or age!? That's why they are here, they WANT TO LEARN. Let's teach em', or at the very least point them in the right direction so they can figure out their mystery find.

I for one believe this is one of the best websites out there for fossils! And i truly appreciate all of the time, effort and hardwork that the 'higher ups' do here to maintain a drama free steady stream of knowledge. I think we owe it to them to make this a warm and inviting place where knowledge keeps flowing freely no matter how many times you have to tell someone that their egg is a concretion. There are generations to come and more scientific discoveries to be made, sometimes inspiration can come from the smallest of actions.

That is perfectly said, I think that if that was the general attitude of all teachers,leaders and/or people of more powerful positions this world would be on track toward a brighter future.

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  • 9 months later...

Just a noobs view of it all. But do we all not gain from the sharing of photos and site references? It would seem as though knowledge of the existence or supporting evidence of a previous find would be very good to have. Of course some folks may also make a monetary profit from the ID of a specimen. Which I am sure very few offer a portion to the forum as payment. I can see both sides of the coin i suppose but I really am so grateful to all who share their knowledge I can’t blame them at all for wanting detailed information. There should be some reward for years of devotion to the science and data.  

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37 minutes ago, Jcollier said:

Just a noobs view of it all. But do we all not gain from the sharing of photos and site references? It would seem as though knowledge of the existence or supporting evidence of a previous find would be very good to have. Of course some folks may also make a monetary profit from the ID of a specimen. Which I am sure very few offer a portion to the forum as payment. I can see both sides of the coin i suppose but I really am so grateful to all who share their knowledge I can’t blame them at all for wanting detailed information. There should be some reward for years of devotion to the science and data.  

One could say that fossil collecting and research is its own reward. :) 

Sharing photos and contextual information is by far the best (and only) method we have here in assisting with identification when we cannot examine the specimens in hand. As for sites, unless they are already public knowledge, it is best to be circumspect if one wishes to maintain the site's productivity for the years to come. In most cases, drilling down to the county level can be sufficient to identify the specimen's geologic context. I'm not sure how anyone can directly profit in a monetary sense from an identification, though. It is more often the case that some sellers purposely misidentify the specimen to cash in on the cachet of a popular species (for example, labeling a tooth as T-rex when it may not be even remotely related).

 

Norbert Wiener quite famously said, "information wants to be free." In this case, we freely share our knowledge and passion without any expectation of reward or payment beyond a thank-you. By sharing our finds and our knowledge, we all gain. :) 

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...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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  • Fossildude19 changed the title to ANSWERING FOSSIL ID REQUESTS: Identification Posting For The Uninitiated 2.0 (NEW MEMBERS PLEASE READ)
On 5/7/2014 at 2:30 AM, Harry Pristis said:

If the questioner actually deserved "an answer to match the effort" put into the question, then many of us are bad citizens. We individually have failed in numerous instances to provide an answer to a deserving questioner. You say, "But, it's a collective responsibility!" and I point out that someone or somefew of us have to write a response . . . In practice, it's an individual effort. Which of us are responsible for writing an answer to match the effort of the deserving questioner? It is neither a collective responsibility nor an individual responsibility. In fact, it is not a responsibility at all.

Harry Pristis,

Just speaking for myself, ANY reply I get from you, or any other members, on an ID request is appreciated.  When I'm lucky enough to get multiple comments/replies, its always helpful, even when some are misses (probably because of my slightly below average posting).  Some are one-liners, some include good-natured sarcasm, some are very detailed and educational explanations.  They are all appreciated.

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1 hour ago, Chippewa said:

Harry Pristis,

Just speaking for myself, ANY reply I get from you, or any other members, on an ID request is appreciated.  When I'm lucky enough to get multiple comments/replies, its always helpful, even when some are misses (probably because of my slightly below average posting).  Some are one-liners, some include good-natured sarcasm, some are very detailed and educational explanations.  They are all appreciated.

 

Thanks for the feedback, Chippewa.  This thread has been too philosophical for some, but yours is a healthy attitude.  I am always appreciative of feedback, even negative feedback, because all of it provokes thought.

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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  • 1 year later...

For fear of sounding like a "Ken" (male version of a "Karen"), too few new posts from new or newish members in the Fossil ID section don't follow the posted rules concerning the necessity information needed to ID their finds, just drop a blurry photo with an M&M (plain or peanut) for scale, and if there is any locality information, more often than not it's "found in western Texas" or some such. 

 

MODS: How difficult would it be to set up an acknowledgement checkbox on a short, several-paragraph (or bullet list) pinned post that the poster needs to "Check" the first time (or first n times)?  Is it even worth it?  Alternately, a 3x, you're out rule? Certainly might save Tim some time.

 

 

General thoughts?

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

George Santayana

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1 hour ago, hemipristis said:

For fear of sounding like a "Ken" (male version of a "Karen"), too few new posts from new or newish members in the Fossil ID section don't follow the posted rules concerning the necessity information needed to ID their finds, just drop a blurry photo with an M&M (plain or peanut) for scale, and if there is any locality information, more often than not it's "found in western Texas" or some such. 

 

MODS: How difficult would it be to set up an acknowledgement checkbox on a short, several-paragraph (or bullet list) pinned post that the poster needs to "Check" the first time (or first n times)?  Is it even worth it?  Alternately, a 3x, you're out rule? Certainly might save Tim some time.

 

 

General thoughts?

 

This isn't something that the software can do.  :(

 

The new members get a Welcome PM (that we cannot force them to read.) that tries to guide them in their Forum posting. 

 

"Hello ________ ,

Welcome to The Fossil Forum!

The first step you may want to do as a new member on TFF is upload a profile picture. This is a crucial way members identify and get to know one another. To do so, visit your profile and click on the icon over the blank profile pic. You can then navigate to an image on your computer that you'd like to use to identify yourself here.

 

Next, please read through this topic on How to Post on the Forum:) 

Also, please take the time to familiarize yourself with our Forum Rules and Community Standards.


You may also wish to introduce yourself in our Member Introductions forum. There, you can tell us a little about yourself. Where you're from, what types of fossils you're interested in, your level of experience, why you decided to join our community, etc.

If you've joined simply to have something you found identified, that's okay too. 

You can jump straight to the Fossil ID section and post photos. It usually doesn't take long for somebody to figure out what you've found around here!

****  Please do not respond to this message. ****


 If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any of our staff, as I do not frequent the Forum regularly. Take care and happy hunting!

 

- Cris "

 

 

You wouldn't believe how many people send a PM to Cris after "reading" this message. :eyeroll:

So even if they do read the PM, some don't actually absorb any information from it.

 

It is human nature to just forge ahead sometimes.  We deal with whatever comes our way.   :shrug:

 

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink."  Some Wise guy, probably.

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    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
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