Shark, Ray, Fish, And Other Micros From The Peace River Of Florida Part 2

[MarcoSr]

I want to thank John S. for sending me three gallons of well washed Peace River gravel from Florida that was ready to search. The Peace River has a very large diversity of species from recent to the Miocene. There were a lot of specimens in the gravel but a lot were damaged and/or water worn which is typical with river gravel. I found a large number of shark, ray and fish fossils, several mammal fossils, several alligator teeth, and a good number of snake vertebrae. There are specimens that I need id help with. I am posting some of the nicer and more unusual specimens which I found which range in size from 2mm to 13mm.

This is my second Post of micros from the Peace River. My first Post can be found at the below link:

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/42036-shark-ray-fish-and-other-micros-from-the-peace-river-of-florida/

If you place your cursor on a JPEG image you will see the file name which will have the specimen id as best that I can determine and the specimen size. If you can identify the specimens further please do so. Each matrix that I search makes me more of an avid micro tooth collector. If anyone has or can collect good matrix with shark, ray, and fish micros please send me a PM.

Some of the shark teeth and a shark vertebra which I found:

Carcharhinus, There were multiple species:

Hemipristis:

Isogomphodon:

Ginglymostoma, I don’t know what they ate, but they always seem to have feeding damage to the crowns:

Sphyrna:

Continued in the next reply.

Marco Sr.

Edited November 7, 2015 by MarcoSr

[MarcoSr]

A shark tooth that I’m not sure of the id (I think it may be a Carcharhinus symphyseal):

Shark Vertebra:

Some of the ray teeth. a ray dermal scute, a ray dermal denticle and a ray barb which I found:

Dasyatis:

Mobula:

Rhynchobatus:

Ray Barb:

Ray dermal scute/dermal denticle:

A ray tooth that I’m not sure of the id (this tooth may just be a damaged, worn male Dasyatis:

Some of the fish teeth which I found:

Continued in the next reply.

Marco Sr.

Edited January 12, 2014 by MarcoSr

[MarcoSr]

Fish Teeth continued:

I had originally thought that these first two specimens were fish mouth plates but after seeing the third specimen I think that they are just small gravel conglomerates. Any comments?:

Snake vertebrae:

Continued in the next reply.

Marco Sr.

Edited January 13, 2014 by MarcoSr

[MarcoSr]

Snake vertebrae continued:

Several Alligator teeth:

A mammal tooth and a fragment of what I believe is a mammal tooth:

Some items I need id help with:

Bird bone fragment?:

Claws?:

Salamander Vertebra?:

Marco Sr.

Edited November 7, 2015 by MarcoSr

[Sacha]

Nice range of species in this batch again. This is from a spot that's easy to collect from so I'll have this available most months outside the rainy season.

Can you tell us a little more about what yo do with each individual site that people sen you matrix from?

Do you create an index of available/found species?

Do you segregate your collection by site or period or strata or a combination?

Do you also group by species comparing specimens from different sites?

Can I by a coffee table book of your favorite photographs???

[MarcoSr]

Nice range of species in this batch again. This is from a spot that's easy to collect from so I'll have this available most months outside the rainy season.

Can you tell us a little more about what yo do with each individual site that people sen you matrix from?

Do you create an index of available/found species?

Do you segregate your collection by site or period or strata or a combination?

Do you also group by species comparing specimens from different sites?

Can I by a coffee table book of your favorite photographs???

John

I like to find really nicely preserved specimens that I can display in gem jar displays and put up specimen pictures on our family website. I have many pictures that I still need to upload to our family website. I put the best specimens in gem jars and put the rest of the specimens in labeled baggies in sowing boxes. My collection is separated by site. Everything (drawers, sowing boxes, displays) is labeled with as much information that I have on the site. I don't group species from different sites but I do compare them all the time to help to better id specimens in the future. My son wants to write several books on some of our favorite sites. I'd probably supply the pictures but would have to do a lot more work on the pictures. I take the pictures for my posts fairly quickly. For a book I would have to pay more attention to the specimen views and shoot true labial, lingual, profile, basal and occlusal views which would require the use of clay or wax. I would also have to use external lighting that I have to remove all shadows and bright and dark spots. I'd also have to use stacking software to get better depth of field detail. So the pictures would take a lot more time. I also have experimented with ways to take black and white pictures on colored backgrounds that give a great amount of specimen detail and look similar to SEM images.

Marco Sr.

[PFOOLEY]

So many treasures hidden amongst the grains of sand! Very nice.

I would stick with mouthplates. They seem too uniform (color/texture) to label as gravel.

[jcbshark]

Very nice marco,it is absolutely amazing the amount and quality of fossils you can find when you really look.When you see the rivers and creeks down here in full flood stage it no wonder that so many big bones and such are turned to splinters but somehow these little delicate pieces can come out unscathed.Thanks for sharing your work Marco,your pics are always spot on!

[siteseer]

Hi Marco Sr.,

I have gone from thinking that tooth is not a Carcharhinus symphyseal to wondering what else it could be. The few I've seen show a range in morphology (serrated triangular crown with distinct heels to a simple spike-like crown with no heels). Yours is unusual even for a symphyseal in that the crown is rather short and curves apparently lingually based on what looks like a nutrient pore. The crown seems to have been serrated so it has suffered some water-wear. The root probably had a somewhat different original shape.

I considered the possibility it was an isolated sand tiger lateral cusplet on a piece of root that wore down to that shape but then it wouldn't be serrated and wouldn't have a nutrient pore on that part of the root.

I can't see it as a tiger shark symphyseal unless some of them can be that reduced in size and shape - maybe from a baby?

I believe the technical term for that is "weird.".

Jess

Edit: Yeah, that ray tooth looks like a worn Dasyatis.

A shark tooth that I’m not sure of the id (I think it may be a Carcharhinus symphyseal):

Shark Tooth1 4mm.jpg

A ray tooth that I’m not sure of the id (this tooth may just be a damaged, worn male Dasyatis:

Ray tooth1a 2.5mm.jpgRay tooth1b 2.5mm.jpg

Some of the fish teeth which I found:

Marco Sr.

Edited January 14, 2014 by siteseer

[DE&i]

Hi Marco Sr,

Truly stunning....what the eye cant see !

Regards,

Darren.

[MarcoSr]

So many treasures hidden amongst the grains of sand! Very nice.

I would stick with mouthplates. They seem too uniform (color/texture) to label as gravel.

Mike

I have a good number of complete and partial Wrasse mouthplates from the Paleocene of MD. The first specimen especially matches them very well. Size, color and texture like you said makes me think mouthplate. However teeth in mouthplates like these that I have seen are in flat layers, one layer upon the other. Especially in the last specimen, the teeth would be at odd angles and don't seem to be in layers. The only way I would know for sure is to remove one of the teeth and look at the back side.

Marco Sr.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Very nice marco,it is absolutely amazing the amount and quality of fossils you can find when you really look.When you see the rivers and creeks down here in full flood stage it no wonder that so many big bones and such are turned to splinters but somehow these little delicate pieces can come out unscathed.Thanks for sharing your work Marco,your pics are always spot on!

Jeff

It is strange how these small specimens can survive in the river gravel. They may just be trapped in a small piece of formation clay or a small crevice which somehow protects them. Plus no mater how much fossil hunter screening is happening in a river, there will always be micros there.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Hi Marco Sr.,

I have gone from thinking that tooth is not a Carcharhinus symphyseal to wondering what else it could be. The few I've seen show a range in morphology (serrated triangular crown with distinct heels to a simple spike-like crown with no heels). Yours is unusual even for a symphyseal in that the crown is rather short and curves apparently lingually based on what looks like a nutrient pore. The crown seems to have been serrated so it has suffered some water-wear. The root probably had a somewhat different original shape.

I considered the possibility it was an isolated sand tiger lateral cusplet on a piece of root that wore down to that shape but then it wouldn't be serrated and wouldn't have a nutrient pore on that part of the root.

I can't see it as a tiger shark symphyseal unless some of them can be that reduced in size and shape - maybe from a baby?

I believe the technical term for that is "weird.".

Jess

Edit: Yeah, that ray tooth looks like a worn Dasyatis.

Jess

I had almost the same thought pattern as you on this weird tooth. It is really hard to identify a weird tooth when it has wear and maybe damage. The worn serrations and the nutrient pore eliminated a lot of possible genus and a cusplet as a possible id. I eliminated other serrated genus because I know what the symphyseal teeth look like. I had considered tiger, but the tooth just didn't match other tiger symphyseal teeth that I have. I really got to Carcharhinus because I just couldn't really think of something else it could be and they are very common in the fauna.

It is funny how damage and water wear can change the appearance of a tooth. But I do agree that ray tooth still does have a lot of the morphology of a Dasyatis and is just a worn, damaged one.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Hi Marco Sr,

Truly stunning....what the eye cant see !

Regards,

Darren.

Darren

It is funny that some of these specimens may have fallen through other fossil collectors sifts.

Marco Sr.